History of the MFT

RMDavis

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Mar 12, 2012
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Hi -

I'm curious about the history of the MFT style top.  I had a look at the Festool site and only saw info on power tools on the Festool History page.

I assume the concept started with holes for bench dogs.  Who developed the concept along to the modern form?

I now see MFT style welding tables - are these a related development?

TIA

Ross
 
"I now see MFT style welding tables - are these a related development?"

I'm not sure how old the welding tables are, but I sure wish they were around 40 years ago (early 80s).

I ran a small bore pipe fab shop on a project for over a year and all the fab tables that were made from sheets of 3/4" plate with 4" pipe legs. Usually had a vise welded on a corner and some attachments for jigs that the guys had come up with. But the grid of dog holes would have great for the pipe spools we were making up which were mostly less than 12 feet long and had multiple fittings at various angles. The dog holes would have been great for making up alignment jigs and jacks to hold branch connections. Most of the spools were 1", 1-1/2", or 2" Sch 40 or 80 316 SS with socketweld fittings and every weld got inspected by the Weld Engineer and NDE (usually a dye check).

I would be interested to know the history of the MFT too. I know there was a model 1080 table (is that the correct model?) that preceded the MFT/3. I think that change came about 10 years ago.
 
Bob D. said:
"I now see MFT style welding tables - are these a related development?"

I'm not sure how old the welding tables are, but I sure wish they were around 40 years ago (early 80s).

I ran a small bore pipe fab shop on a project for over a year and all the fab tables that were made from sheets of 3/4" plate with 4" pipe legs. Usually had a vise welded on a corner and some attachments for jigs that the guys had come up with. But the grid of dog holes would have great for the pipe spools we were making up which were mostly less than 12 feet long and had multiple fittings at various angles. The dog holes would have been great for making up alignment jigs and jacks to hold branch connections. Most of the spools were 1", 1-1/2", or 2" Sch 40 or 80 316 SS with socketweld fittings and every weld got inspected by the Weld Engineer and NDE (usually a dye check).

I would be interested to know the history of the MFT too. I know there was a model 1080 table (is that the correct model?) that preceded the MFT/3. I think that change came about 10 years ago.

Not sure but we made our own welding tables back in the day long before I knew about festool MFT this was about 20 years ago we started doing this.  We drilled 3/4 holes and would use some solid bar that was slightly under bent of a L I cant remember for sure but around 75-80° so one leg would drop into the hole and the other tip would make contact first a good wack with a hammer would wedge it into the hole and pinch the part at the tip. Festool wasnt really on my radar at the time so Im not sure which came first 
 
afish said:
Not sure but we made our own welding tables back in the day long before I knew about festool MFT this was about 20 years ago we started doing this.  We drilled 3/4 holes and would use some solid bar that was slightly under bent of a L I cant remember for sure but around 75-80° so one leg would drop into the hole and the other tip would make contact first a good wack with a hammer would wedge it into the hole and pinch the part at the tip. Festool wasnt really on my radar at the time so Im not sure which came first

Yes, we made our own table too. We used a MagDrill to put holes for jigs and supports here and there but no grid of holes like on an MFT. And I had not even heard of Festool back in the 80s.
 
With plenty of hold down options which look very familiar...

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Ross Davis said:
Bump to see if Festool with reply.

Festool rarely responds on the Forum.  I was watching a video last night and saw reference that the MFT/3 came out in 2008 here in North America.

Peter
 
In the 2003-04 Festool Catalog there are the predecessors of the MFT/3.

Wasn't there an index to SysNotes somewhere?

Maybe some clues as to its origin could be found there.
 

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This look even older than the 1080 or800
 

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These welding/fabrication tables have been around since the forties. It would interesting to know the who the inventor/inventors were. I know it wasn't Ron Paulk, and I doubt it was Festool.
E.
 

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Bob D. said:
In the 2003-04 Festool Catalog there are the predecessors of the MFT/3.

Wasn't there an index to SysNotes somewhere?

Maybe some clues as to its origin could be found there.
I have the oldy but goody 800.  [smile]  Small top, but very sturdy and doesn't wobble
 
In the mid ‘70’s I had a B&D Workmate that had a hole pattern and adjustable jaw.

Tom
 
tjbnwi said:
In the mid ‘70’s I had a B&D Workmate that had a hole pattern and adjustable jaw.

Tom

i still have mine. It has 20mm dog holes, they always have since it originated in England. The hole pattern makes no sense though. There are no opposing dog holes IIRC, and the spacing between them varies.
 
Acorn made platen welding tables for years.  They are massive 2” thick and have 2” square holes. 

I had a bunch of spec homes 5 years ago and my welder wanted crazy money for interior railings.  I ended up buying a 4’x8’ Stronghand Buildpro table- 5/8 holes 2”OC and you can move the rectangular plates off the rails to expand it.  Picked up a Baileigh cold saw and saved a bunch.

Having a fixture table is incredible easy for lay out and fabrication. Including fixtures I have easily $8k wrapped up in it but worth every penny.
 
tjbnwi said:
In the mid ‘70’s I had a B&D Workmate that had a hole pattern and adjustable jaw.

Tom

Hi [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

My wife gave me a Black and Decker Workmate as an engagement present in 1974. It is still in use today but now enjoys life at my son's house. The hole pattern was really useful as B&D supplied rectangular dogs that gave additional ways of holding work. The Workmate was so popular then that I have no doubt that it would have influenced many tool designers.

Peter
 
smorgasbord said:
And note that in the 1990's Scott Landis' The Workbench Book showed/described workbenches with round dog holes instead of square.

Sorry, when I said rectangular dogs - they were 20 mm diameter round dogs but with a rectangular top.

Peter
 

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Alex said:
Pretty sure the concept of holes for pegs/dogs in workbenches stems from ancient times. Plenty of pictures of old medieval benches on the net.
...

These were different. The Festool MFT holes are explicitly NOT designed to be used as peg holes.

I think what defined the first "true" MFTs (aka the 2nd iteration formed by the MFT 1080 and 800) was the  specific design goal of exclusive use by power tools and the dropping of any pretense of being suitable for hand tools. This is also where the MFTs became so unstable (even compared to the FST predecessor pictured earlier). It was simply a non-issue in a pure power tool use case.

In other words, the MFTs were singularly focused on being mobile and suitable for "securing" or "placing" a workpiece for power tool operations. WIth this came below "solution" to the problem:

- the concept of a sacrificial MDF top, meaning the holes cannot be used as the (traditional) peg/dog holes, this was taken from the FST noted
- the concept of using a regular pattern of holes *across the whole table* to provide flexibility, is in, we need the holes everywhere, so why not a regular placement ?
- while at it, why not just use the 32 mm system to place the holes ? ... how about 96 mm which is close enough for flexibility and far-enough for strength ? => STANDARD #1
- while making, holes, we need to make sure folks do not try to use it with pegs (which used 22 and 25mm standards in Europe at the time) ,good, so we need smaller holes -> how about a nice round number like 20.0 mm ?  => STANDARD #2
- what about the pattern, how about we make it simple, so square it is ? => STANDARD #3

The last aspect, that the holes were made on pretty accurate CNCs, caused an unintended consequence => people started using the holes as a reference for squareness and/or straightness ...

I would say what makes the MFT a Festool-first is the combination of the above properties in one product and the primary focus of the product being power tools processing of soft (aka wood) materials. Every single of the propetries, alone, was well known before. it was the combination and the execution (CNC accuracy) that created a wholly new product experience.

The best analogy would be the iPhone. It was not the first. By far. Definitely not the fastest either. Or even best in almost ANY category. But it was the first to hit the right balance of software usability and form factor in one product which made it the huge win it was.

In total, I would consider the 3 standards mentione above as what makes something a (generalized) MFT:
- hole pattern (orthogonal 96mm grid)
- hole size (20 mm)
- sacrificial nature of the work surfaces (aka it *can* be cut into, does not necessarily have to be ..)
 
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