Horrible little desk

[Crazyraceguy]

Over the years, I have built some ugly or bad-functioning stuff, all at the whim of the architect. Sometimes they can be coached out of bad things, other times they just dig in and insist.
This is one of those. It's a fairly simple little thing. A couple of miterfolds on the outside corners, but no biggie, done it a thousand times. Under normal conditions, this would have been a 2 day deal. However this guy insisted on this stupid moulding on the 90-degree outside corners.....everywhere. This drags the complexity over the top. Now, every single corner becomes a miterfold  [eek] with 2 45-degree bends in the length. That means every panel on this thing has to be pre-laminated and glued with a gap between for the moulding. It's not just a corner cap, there is a spline down the middle, which helps hold it place better than just a cap. There is very little overlap though, so there has to be about a 1/16" gap (but no more than 1/8") or it won't cover the gap.
I started with 50' of that trim (five 10' pieces, cut in half to ship) and I ended up with less than 3 feet left over. It's everywhere, top, bottom, and vertical corners.
This is just my problem. Later though, those edges sticking up will always be an issue. Nothing will ever sit flat up there. The powder coating will eventually wear off. All that can ever be done is touch-up with paint, which will wear faster. You absolutely cannot remove it without major damage.
On top of that, it's white on white, no contrast. This moulding is usually silver anodized, which would have been a little better, at least from the wear standpoint, even if the contrast isn't much better.
This mess made the job take more than triple the time it would have normally.

 

[Packard]

Some designers are like that.

I recall going to a graphic artist to design a new business card back in the early 1980s.

It was a pretty design.

Printing 1000 cards would cost over $700.00.

That’s approximately $2,280.00 in today’s dollars.

I went back to the designer.  He said, “My job is to make a beautiful design. Cost is not part of my job description.”

He just did not care what it cost. I paid for his design work.

I showed it to another designer and she worked with the printer to come up with a very similar look, for just under $200.00.  Reprints would be far cheaper.

So that is the way some designers are.  Cost is not part of their job description and they won’t budge.  Some of them are very successful, but I suspect more of the pragmatic designers are than those who don’t consider cost as part of their job description.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I think everyone on here who does this for a living will 100% feel your pain - I know I certainly do. There are a certain breed of ‘arty’ customers who get something into their heads and won’t be swayed. It’s usually some tiny detail which they become obsessively fixated upon - mostly in kitchens and bathrooms, so it seems. Like you CRG, I’ve yet to encounter something I haven’t been able to build, but it makes the process a total PITA rather than a pleasure. You did great.

 

[mino]

I think everyone on here who does this for a living will 100% feel your pain - I know I certainly do. There are a certain breed of ‘arty’ customers who get something into their heads and won’t be swayed. It’s usually some tiny detail which they become obsessively fixated upon - mostly in kitchens and bathrooms, so it seems. Like you CRG, I’ve yet to encounter something I haven’t been able to build, but it makes the process a total PITA rather than a pleasure. You did great.

I do not but still feel it. IMO the main issue is this is a functional piece, not something meant to fit in a posh living room.

The actual end customer will most certaily just throw out the piece a couple yrs down, once they realize it is unmaintainable.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I do not but still feel it. IMO the main issue is this is a functional piece, not something meant to fit in a posh living room.

The actual end customer will most certaily just throw out the piece a couple yrs down, once they realize it is unmaintainable.

This is most of my objection. Someone has to live with this thing, and it will not be pleasant.
I'm fine with "art" pieces, this type of thing requires a bit more practicality though.
I gave up concerning myself about the cost of things years ago. This is generally corporate money and they just don't care (99% of the time anyway)
There have been many cases over the years where minor changes could have saved a lot of money, whether it was a change of materials or a feature that could be made differently, saving time.

I think everyone on here who does this for a living will 100% feel your pain - I know I certainly do. There are a certain breed of ‘arty’ customers who get something into their heads and won’t be swayed. It’s usually some tiny detail which they become obsessively fixated upon - mostly in kitchens and bathrooms, so it seems. Like you CRG, I’ve yet to encounter something I haven’t been able to build, but it makes the process a total PITA rather than a pleasure. You did great.

Thank you very much. That means a lot, coming from you.

Like this. These little tables that I built for a local library were a giant pain, all because of the architect/designer. The solid Maple border around the top had to be steam bent. I spent a lot of time re-making the form a few times to compensate for the spring-back. There were 5 of these things, taking 10 bent pieces. It would have been far easier to do them as a glue lamination.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I like the library tables. At least needing to bend them means the wood won't be hidden under paint.

As for the springback, did you bend the stock both ways before setting into the form? Meaning bend it a bit beyond its final shape then the opposite direction before coming back. Michael Fortune does it this way and it takes all the angst out of the stock.

 

[Peter Kelly]

I'm going to create an AutoCad plugin that uses Ai to generate either a series of dollar signs or a frowny face next to the cursor when the designer adds something that's going to suddenly increase costs or make things exponentially more painful to fabricate.

Should be a hit.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

No [member=3513]PaulMarcel[/member] I have never heard of that? I was very selective of the pieces, inspecting them for grain flow and defects. I steamed the about an hour and chucked them into the form as quickly as I could.
In all of the pieces I did for that job, only one failed. It cracked before I got it 50% compressed...hour wasted. After that I always steamed two pieces at once. Then I made a second form  [huh]

There was no way I could get these bent beyond the final shape out in the free air. They needed the support of the negative side of the form.
To my knowledge, they are all still doing fine. The last time I was there, about a year ago, they still looked great. Theoretically, they should, there is no pressure on them. Once dry, they would lay in place almost perfectly, which was the plan, because of the miter joint. I figured it would be nearly impossible to get the fit right if I had to force them to stay in place.
That green in the middle is a flooring product, much like linoleum. It was kind of soft/flexible, but would stick with contact cement. It was adhered to the core first and then wrapped with the wood.
I sure wish I had an MFK700 back then, but I hadn't discovered your videos yet.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm going to create an AutoCad plugin that uses Ai to generate either a series of dollar signs or a frowny face next to the cursor when the designer adds something that's going to suddenly increase costs or make things exponentially more painful to fabricate.

Should be a hit.

I like it, but in my experience, they will just ignore the $$$, at least the designer will. I could only hope the guy bidding the job notices the frowny faces.
I have talked quite extensively with one of the guys who does that part. I just don't understand how they can come up with a bid, when they have no clue how some of this will get done. Therefore, having no idea how long it will take, which comes back to the $$$
The best answer seems to be that it all works out in the end. They make an educated guess, sometimes they miss, but more often than not, they are ok.....or I pull their ass out of the fire.  [big grin]

 

[PaulMarcel]

There was no way I could get these bent beyond the final shape out in the free air. They needed the support of the negative side of the form.

When I did a steam-bending workshop with Michael, he'd put the piece in the bending strap, go a little further than the final bend, rotate the stock 180º, and do it again (so, both ways). The piece that came out of the strap would go wherever you wanted it and stay. It was crazy. Still used a strap while it was on the form, though; need it to limit the tension on the outside of the curve. Those bending straps at Lee Valley were his design; he has a lot of designs sold through them.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Of all the fine woodworkers introduced by FWW magazine Michael Fortune is the one I’ve learned the most from. I’d really like to take a workshop from him. Extremely inventive as well as skilled and creative.

 

[PaulMarcel]

Of all the fine woodworkers introduced by FWW magazine Michael Fortune is the one I’ve learned the most from. I’d really like to take a workshop from him. Extremely inventive as well as skilled and creative.

For some reason, he enjoys coming out to Phoenix in the winter. He usually does 2 sometimes 3 workshops. I'd take it just to hear you and Michael throw down words of wisdom. Kelly Parker always joins to co-teach and sometimes do a women's workshop. She has fantastic designs as well (as you'd imagine with her being his apprentice).

Fun fact: Kelly's sister joined us at a lunch during the workshop. She runs a circus performance company so I knew her from that world. Smol world.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

There was no way I could get these bent beyond the final shape out in the free air. They needed the support of the negative side of the form.

When I did a steam-bending workshop with Michael, he'd put the piece in the bending strap, go a little further than the final bend, rotate the stock 180º, and do it again (so, both ways). The piece that came out of the strap would go wherever you wanted it and stay. It was crazy. Still used a strap while it was on the form, though; need it to limit the tension on the outside of the curve. Those bending straps at Lee Valley were his design; he has a lot of designs sold through them.

At the time I did these, I had never heard of the metal strap technique. I have seen several videos showing it since, and it seems sound, just haven't needed it again. I generally prefer glue-lam, though I did just see a video where I guy was steaming and forming his laminations too. Then he would glue them up later, after a few hours on the form and a day or so drying separated, yet still held it the proper shape too. It seemed to be waay overkill to steam pieces that were only 2mm thick and waste all of that time? but it's his time/effort, not mine [big grin]