Jay,
[thumbs up]
That says it all in this economy - in my opinion.
Peter
[thumbs up]
That says it all in this economy - in my opinion.
Peter
Per Swenson said:....Or are we money makers. I have said it more then once, I will say it again.
I will sooner stand on a street corner with a silly sign.
Then sell crap.
When you are done with me, your great grand children will wonder how he did that.
Its not about the money, its about the craft.
Its called dignity.
And when the shells are all boiled, that's really all you have.
Dignity.
Per
Per Swenson said:Brice,
Your reputation is for sale?
There is a word for that.
Per
jvsteenb said:... I've never charged a dime for an estimate ( however elaborate ) and just charge for my work and materials.
Advice is freely given and always to the best of my knowledge, and I've never charged a dime for that either, for who knows if I might be wrong ?
One thing I learned early on was that if I was going to make a decent profit, the customer had to pay for EVERYTHING. That includes ALL of my time plus ALL operating expenses. Of course, there were many things not itemized on the invoice, but they were figured in. That includes time spent driving back and forth (plus gas and vehicle maintenance), figuring out estimates, and yes, even giving advice.
Sorry, I do this for a living. Nothing romantic about it. No, I won't wax poetic but I'll cash the paycheck even if than means getting out the caulking gun or installing the Depot's finest. Nothing wrong with having high standards.....and I'll get back to them when people want to pay for them again.
jvsteenb said:One thing I learned early on was that if I was going to make a decent profit, the customer had to pay for EVERYTHING. That includes ALL of my time plus ALL operating expenses. Of course, there were many things not itemized on the invoice, but they were figured in. That includes time spent driving back and forth (plus gas and vehicle maintenance), figuring out estimates, and yes, even giving advice.
John,
That's obviously some sound business advice, and I wouldn't want to argue with that.
Still, in my egg-headed stubbornness, I tend to look at it from a somewhat different perspective.
First of all: I don't have the compelling need or desire to be wealthy. As long as I can support myself and my loved ones, pay the debts in in a way that keeps the bailiffs and judicial executors from my door, it's fine by me. I live in a small town, with a very high mean income profile ( second highest in the whole country ) and I'm acquainted to quite a few VERY wealthy people. They're not the least bit happier because of it, the opposite seems more true in most cases. I wouldn't want to switch places with most of them. Yes, I would like to to be able to buy the equipment that I think I need and that would make my work that much easier/better/healthier - whatever. But somehow that inability to cater to my direct "needs" hightens the enjoyment whenever I do find a way to afford it. It's a balance thing, I guess.
And then again: I like to consider myself as a craftsman. That's what I like to do. I like to be quite generic, not stuck to one set of tricks. Among other things I've been a professional CAD / GeoSystems engineer, and have been developing information architectures to suit. At the risk of sounding arrogant: I was very good at that. I've been "detached" to other companies for about five to six times the hourly rate that I charge, and it was willingly payed. But I found that although I very much liked working with the people involved, and delivering something that they would be satisfied with - I didn't really like the actual work - it was just a means to an end.
In the distant past, I've been an electronics engineer, a mechanic working on everything from ships engines to fast two stroke racing engines, and an ecological farmer, to name a few.
I'm not a very good carpenter, but at least a decent one. I build furniture, but there are others who's craftsmanship I can only admire without any hope I will ever reach that sort of perfection. But I'm proud of what I make, even if it's not going to end up in the Smithsonian.
And there's the bottom line for me: I like to earn my living doing what I like. Sometimes when I do an estimate, there's a disproportional amount of work involved. Just a couple of months ago, I did an estimate on a tree job ( I do a treecare service as well ) and my estimate was actually accompanied by an addendum that could very well be used as a complete VTA or visual tree assessment report. I didn't charge for that, but made it clear in the estimate, that when I would get the job, the report would be factured in. I just put in the request that whenever they would like to get the job done by a competitor, I would like them to consider the report as confidential, and not to let the competitor read my notes. I really like my competitors in that field, for most of them are great guys, but I see no need to do their work for them without any return. I'll hang in my climbing belt doing that job the first week of May - the customer was in awe with my estimate, and wanted me to do VTA's ( paying work ) on a couple of other trees, and the neighbour showed quite some interest as well.
I make good estimates, and put a lot of work in them. I deliver sound advice, at least to my knowledge. Actually, I think I'm a better advisor then I am a craftsman. But that's just not what I want to earn my keep with. Not factoring them in is my way of keeping myself on edge, and delivering the quality that I like to deliver. Whenever a customer wants to pay for an "advice-only" job, that's fine by me.
And that about sums it up, I guess. I like to see the usual estimate and the advice I give as an investment from my part. One can never be sure about returns on investment. But If I don't want to invest in a job - how can I expect my potential customers to do so? After all it's rather a plunge to sign a contract, especially when you've never dealt with the craftsman before, and all you have is a recommandation, or word-to-mouth advertising to rely on.
Perhaps my business-model isn't very sound or adviseable. You may very well be right there. But it FITS me, it fits who I am, and the way I like to look at the world. So as long as I'm somehow able to keep my business running, I'll stick to it. Though I appreciate the advice VERY much ! ( I however hope you won't charge me for it.... [scared]) I hope you won't mind me carrying on as is...
Regards,
Job