How can you determine the origin of the lumber products you buy?

[Packard]

Is there some way to determine the country of origin for the wood products we commonly buy for our projects?

 

[woodferret]

If it's got more knots than Swiss cheese, then it's not Russian, da.

 

[Svar]

Baltic birch plywood is almost exclusively from Russia. I don't buy it. There is some from Finland, but typically specialty stuff, such as aircraft grade, etc.
I'm not aware of anything else.
I imagine in North America solid lumber is mostly domestic and exotics are from tropical countries.
There are "exotic" 3/4"x pine boards at HD and Lowes which have wide growth rings and are absolutely knot free. Those are from New Zealand.

 

[hdv]

There are some non-Russian alternatives on both ends of the quality spectrum. Like Svar said, the specialty stuff can be had from Finland. And normal ply in the lower grades (i.e. not B/BB) is offered by some manufacturers in the Baltics and a few other places. But as far as I know, if you want ply of B/BB grade, then you'll only be able to find Russian origins. Mind you, this goes for Europe. I don't know what the situation is in the US. Might be you have your own sources of maybe the Canadian do produce good quality ply? I don't know.

Anyway, around here many replacement products have popped up by now. I mostly go for reinforced maple ply or Polish pine ply. Depending on the need for more or less pronounced figure I chose one over the other. Reinforced maple ply has a beautiful layer structure (some may find it even more beautiful than that of birch ply). Prices for these alternatives around are about the same what we used to pay for Baltic birch ply.

[Edit] I read about one party (Rowood) that has set up their own production line of good quality birch ply using wood from Latvia that they ship to be processed in China according to their own (high) quality standards. Problem is, they only sell in really large quantities and only to businesses.

 

[WillAdams]

Apple Ply?
https://www.woodmagazine.com/wood-supplies/lumber/what-is-appleply

 

[Duckler]

If the OP wants to make political comments on FOG, maybe he can apply for an exemption.
I think he has done as much. I have to ask if the rest of us can.
Can we?
Where is the line that can not be crossed?

 

[woodferret]

I don't know if one should point out that the eastern Siberian birch is being redirected to Vietnam, Indonesia, and China.  Even *Columbia Forest was sourcing 'Chinese' birch for a while, which really if you know the birch harvesting moratorium in northern China, pretty much implies it's russian origin

If it's really that important to you, just switch to Garnica's eucalyptus+poplar ply.

But to put things in perspective, realize that the US trade deficit to Russia is standing at $144M (exported to RUS $42.3M and imported $187M).

* edit: might have been CanUSA

 

[bidn]

If the OP wants to make political comments on FOG, maybe he can apply for an exemption.
I think he has done as much. I have to ask if the rest of us can.
Can we?
Where is the line that can not be crossed?

Spot on, the OP explicitly stated that his motivation regards a politician and boycotting a country re. a war, i.e. 1000% political!!!!
How can this be tolerated? I am so outraged!!!!
If so, then people can also open threads about boycotting the toolboxes fabricated in Israel so as to not support the genocide of the native Palestinian population?
I hope this whole thread about boycotting Russia will be quickly deleted else we will do the same re. Israel.

 

[Packard]

Political because of the subject matter.

Apolitical because I only asked how to determine the country of origin for the material.

So I am changing the original post somewhat to reduce the political side.

 

[woodferret]

Political because of the subject matter.

Apolitical because I only asked how to determine the country of origin for the material.

So I am changing the original post somewhat to reduce the political side.

Really, in NA unless you have a cabinet supplier that has a contract with someone in Latvia, Finland, Poland, etc you're likely not going to see EU-ex-RU baltic birch.  Their birch forest capacity is currently going all-in to domestic (EU) supply and there is no projected surplus to service exports.  Things you see at Home Depot are likely to be China sourced plywood, which is inevitably going to be Russian supplied birch, even if the paper trail dies there.  You can try looking for FSC certification, but there's some questions about compliance issues of late with it....
https://fsc.org/en/newscentre/integ...om-an-analysis-of-birch-plywood-supply-chains

Note that the countries that are questionable are Latvia, Türkiye, Kazakhstan, and China which are the major suppliers of FSC birch, so it's not just a China thing to be clear.

The easiest method though is to look at the interply knots.  EU B/BB veneers are being reserved for the face ply and are being cut extremely thin these days.  US birch is just crap.  The interply is less picky, but if you come across a ply that's miraculously clear, you're probably looking at something of Russian origin.  I was not being lippy about knots - well, kinda was.... but (k)not.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

1 - A thread about timber which innocently mentions Russia.

2 - Various members of the 'woke' brigade huff & puff, bleating [member=67611]bidn[/member]-level 'outrage' and revealing their 'being offended at everything' mentality - whilst then using a perfectly valid, non-political 'timber and plywood origins' discussion as a convenient excuse to throw Israel & Palestine into the mix. Shame on you.

3 - Valid and meaningful discussion gets deleted by mods.

4 - A total microcosm of life in 2024. Welcome to the end, my friends.

 

[peter halle]

If the OP wants to make political comments on FOG, maybe he can apply for an exemption.
I think he has done as much. I have to ask if the rest of us can.
Can we?
Where is the line that can not be crossed?

Let's just keep it non-political.  Edits are being made and the thread has been renamed.

Peter

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I hugely respect you, but here you are off.

And the same respect right back at you, sir. We all have the freedom to buy what we want - and if we as individuals choose not to purchase specific products, from specific countries, for specific reasons (such as the fact that our conscience isn't comfortable with it) - then so be it. Irrespective of anything else, I admire those to choose to take a personal stand for their own reasons.

All of the AAAAA-grade birch ply I use comes from Finland (a company called FinnForest) who have consistently delivered exceptional-quality sheet goods for at least the last 20 years, so the 'country of origin' dilemma doesn't apply to me - at least on a superficial level anyway. But does that superb top face come from elsewhere? I have no idea. As a commercial woodworker earning his living from doing this - if I were to spend countless hours emailing manufacturers to find out, I'd never get anything built. I similarly have no idea of the environmental or political connotations surrounding the substantial amounts of European (=French or Italian) oak I buy, or the US-sourced black walnut & cherry, or the African-sourced iroko, afromosia or wenge. Ultimately - it's all a slab of shot-in-the-dark guesswork. We can all only do our best, using things like FSC certification to reassure ourselves. The above isn't a cop-out btw - it's commercial reality. All we need to do is to look downwards at the socks covering our feet, and wonder if they were put together in some third-world-below-subsistence-level-wage hellhole. Spoiler alert = they probably were. Fact is - we'll never know.

Politics don't even come into this (nowhere even close) - and anyone who chooses to die on that hill inevitably has an opinion swamped by CNN and Fox-News soundbites which only tell maybe 1% of the actual story. I wasn't going to write about this, but now - I really think I should. The real, actual story can be told by Mykhailo. She's the 28-year-old Ukrainian refugee who's been living at my home for the last three years or so, brought here by the UK's 'Shelter' initiative. She arrived here 7 months pregnant, like a rabbit in the headlights, and without speaking a word of English. Two months in - she gave birth to a daughter who's now almost 3 years old - a daughter who's never met her Dad. Mykhailo gets a Facetime call from her husband (a soldier serving in the Ukrainian military) once in a blue moon when he has some internet. This guy has a small daughter who he's only ever seen through a phone screen. Between one FT call and the next - she has no idea if he's still alive or not. I could write a whole lot more - but I'll keep quiet right now.

So until you've done all of the above, until you've given a vulnerable refugee a safe, comfortable home, until you've taught her a language and a trade (she's my apprentice), until you've helped raise a bi-lingual child and started to put her through school, until you've exhibited the compassion and support so richly deserved by an innocent victim of someone else's actions - you have ZERO right to be 'outraged'. NONE WHATSOEVER. 

I hope the above puts the 'politics' BS squarely into perspective.

Warm wishes to everyone - irrespective of your colour, your creed, your religion, your gender orientation, your location, your nationality, your language, your culture, your beliefs, your anything. To me - you're all just people.

Kevin

 

 

 

[woodferret]

I feel for those caught in this on all sides, especially those in eastern ukr that have to fight their own families.

So you pick up refugees and then take the moral high road soap box feeble attempt to squash opposition/questioning.

From Donbass to Belgorod, FU.

* edit: I was happy to help Packard, but this is why we can't have political tainted discussions/questions.

 

[dicktill]

And the same respect right back at you, sir. We all have the freedom to buy what we want - and if we as individuals choose not to purchase specific products, from specific countries, for specific reasons (such as the fact that our conscience isn't comfortable with it) - then so be it. Irrespective of anything else, I admire those to choose to take a personal stand for their own reasons.

All of the AAAAA-grade birch ply I use comes from Finland (a company called FinnForest) who have consistently delivered exceptional-quality sheet goods for at least the last 20 years, so the 'country of origin' dilemma doesn't apply to me - at least on a superficial level anyway. But does that superb top face come from elsewhere? I have no idea. As a commercial woodworker earning his living from doing this - if I were to spend countless hours emailing manufacturers to find out, I'd never get anything built. I similarly have no idea of the environmental or political connotations surrounding the substantial amounts of European (=French or Italian) oak I buy, or the US-sourced black walnut & cherry, or the African-sourced iroko, afromosia or wenge. Ultimately - it's all a slab of shot-in-the-dark guesswork. We can all only do our best, using things like FSC certification to reassure ourselves. The above isn't a cop-out btw - it's commercial reality. All we need to do is to look downwards at the socks covering our feet, and wonder if they were put together in some third-world-below-subsistence-level-wage hellhole. Spoiler alert = they probably were. Fact is - we'll never know.

Politics don't even come into this (nowhere even close) - and anyone who chooses to die on that hill inevitably has an opinion swamped by CNN and Fox-News soundbites which only tell maybe 1% of the actual story. I wasn't going to write about this, but now - I really think I should. The real, actual story can be told by Mykhailo. She's the 28-year-old Ukrainian refugee who's been living at my home for the last three years or so, brought here by the UK's 'Shelter' initiative. She arrived here 7 months pregnant, like a rabbit in the headlights, and without speaking a word of English. Two months in - she gave birth to a daughter who's now almost 3 years old - a daughter who's never met her Dad. Mykhailo gets a Facetime call from her husband (a soldier serving in the Ukrainian military) once in a blue moon when he has some internet. This guy has a small daughter who he's only ever seen through a phone screen. Between one FT call and the next - she has no idea if he's still alive or not. I could write a whole lot more - but I'll keep quiet right now.

So until you've done all of the above, until you've given a vulnerable refugee a safe, comfortable home, until you've taught her a language and a trade (she's my apprentice), until you've helped raise a bi-lingual child and started to put her through school, until you've exhibited the compassion and support so richly deserved by an innocent victim of someone else's actions - you have ZERO right to be 'outraged'. NONE WHATSOEVER. 

I hope the above puts the 'politics' BS squarely into perspective.

Warm wishes to everyone - irrespective of your colour, your creed, your religion, your gender orientation, your location, your nationality, your language, your culture, your beliefs, your anything. To me - you're all just people.

Kevin

Kevin: Thank you on many fronts!

 

[semenza]

Hey! Stop with the politics!  And stop debating whether or not it is political. And stop responding to each other about that aspect of the discussion. And stop mixing it into the other info on the plywood.

Because ultimately what will happen if it continues is losing the entire thread because it will be too difficult to sort it and edit it out.

  Enough already.

Seth

 

[Steve1]

Getting back to the topic, without politics, If you want to know where the wood is from try e-mailing the store.

Don't just ask the kid working on the floor, he don't know.  Send them an e-mail so they have a chance to investigate the answer. 
When I saw this thread, I was inspired to ask the place where I sometimes buy Baltic birch, what the country of origin is.  They promptly replied.

 

[Packard]

Getting back to the topic, without politics, If you want to know where the wood is from try e-mailing the store.

Don't just ask the kid working on the floor, he don't know.  Send them an e-mail so they have a chance to investigate the answer. 
When I saw this thread, I was inspired to ask the place where I sometimes buy Baltic birch, what the country of origin is.  They promptly replied.

That sounds like an actionable response.  I will try that.  I think that taking a photo of the barcode and including it with the email will keep things specific.

Or, if it is on their online catalog, simply reference that.  I’m pretty sure that Home Depot, Lowes, and Menards all have their products listed on line.

Thanks.