How do you handle repetitive cross cuts on sheet goods?

[zachjowi]

4x8 or largest MFT bench you have room for, 80/20 fence and dashboard rail hinge will give you the best and most reliable, repeatable crosscuts.

Yeah, this is probably the way I'll go. I was actually thinking about going two 2x4 MFT and put both on wheels so I can move them around if needed.

I still have to figure out if I would prefer to have one long fence (like the one that BenchdogsUK makes) or something smaller like the Sauter ones.

To start with we process hundreds of sheets a month using the TSO system. I do have a sliding table saw with an 8’ stroke, it has been in storage for 3+ years.

We have 2 cutting tables, they are knock down with consumable 2” foam tops.

Our process is;

Straight line one long edge of the sheet

The straight lined edge is the reference edge, using a TSO GRS cross cut the sheet

From here we can use the TSO PG’s to rip to width or cross cut to length. The PG’s guides have no clue if you’re cutting the long edge (ripping) or the short edge (crosscutting).

The cross-cutting is normally done with a single arm on a GRS. As long as you are using the 2 reference edge as the basis for your cuts the edges will be parallel.

Just like any other operation, the more accurately you set the stops the more precise the pieces will be.

I posted this from an iPad, hopefully the pictures don’t rotate….(pictures later, they wouldn’t upload)

Tom

Hi Tom,

thanks for the detailed reply, it was very helpful. The approach is similar to mine, aside some minor details. My main issue is that instead of parallel guides I use a set of Woodpeckers rulers with a stop, but they're not long enough for cross cutting. What is the maximum capacity for TSO parallel guides?

Best!

The link I posted earlier takes you right to the TSO 50" parallel guides which have a 50" cutting capacity.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-paralle...ks-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-tracks-only/

 

[nicholam77]

Probably more involved than you're looking for but I built my own MFT and extension wings.

The MFT alone can handle crosscuts up to 50" with repeatable fence:

Then I made two foldable extension wings that I can use on either side, one or both:

That's my dad not me haha. But you get the idea... can cross cut some really long pieces. No repeatability for those but at least good support.

Can also double them up in the other orientation to support a 4x8 sheet of foam for the rip cuts:

Also comes in handy to support really long pieces for other tasks, too!

Hope that helps — could use your 8020 but in case you don't want one enormous MFT the extension wings are really versatile!

 

[MaurizioVacca]

The link I posted earlier takes you right to the TSO 50" parallel guides which have a 50" cutting capacity.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-paralle...ks-for-tpg-parallel-guide-system-tracks-only/

Thanks. Let's say I want to cut multiple panels at 2mt height (which is pretty common for a wardrobe): is there any limit of how much of these segments I can join together? I assume that two set of 50" would be enough for most of my needs.

Probably more involved than you're looking for but I built my own MFT and extension wings.

The MFT alone can handle crosscuts up to 50" with repeatable fence:

Then I made two foldable extension wings that I can use on either side, one or both:

That's my dad not me haha. But you get the idea... can cross cut some really long pieces. No repeatability for those but at least good support.

Can also double them up in the other orientation to support a 4x8 sheet of foam for the rip cuts:

Also comes in handy to support really long pieces for other tasks, too!

Hope that helps — could use your 8020 but in case you don't want one enormous MFT the extension wings are really versatile!

That's great really! A question: are you using the MFT guide rail support? Is it compatible with t-tracks/aluminum extrusion or you had to modify it?

 

[nicholam77]

That's great really! A question: are you using the MFT guide rail support? Is it compatible with t-tracks/aluminum extrusion or you had to modify it?

Thanks! Yes, I am using the rail supports from the MFT. I bought them as separate parts, about $110 USD for the pair.

Although as someone else mentioned, if you can swing the price, the Dashboard ones are much better. Or so everyone says. All I can say is the Festool ones are sloppy. I make it work with how I do my bench setup, but it could be better.

And no, they don't work with the T-Tracks, those are just for Festool quick clamps or other T-Track accessories. I had to make a custom "profile" for the rail support brackets to slide into by routing out the maple and adding some 1/8" bar aluminum. It's based on a design by Guy Dunlap (search Guy's Woodshop on YouTube and he has a video on his).

I also have a thread on my MFT bench that should contain the necessary info to replicate if you'd like more info here.

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Although as someone else mentioned, if you can swing the price, the Dashboard ones are much better. Or so everyone says. All I can say is the Festool ones are sloppy. I make it work with how I do my bench setup, but it could be better.
here[/url].

Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it!

 

[afish]

I would reach out to them and double check that info.  According to their website it says that VAT import fees etc are not included in the price.  This makes me think they will ship it to you.  HEREis a link to their page that says that if you scroll down near the bottom.  I wouldnt compromise the dashboard hinge is the one you want. 

 

[MikeGE]

Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

To add what [member=73094]afish[/member] wrote, there is a link on the same page just above the VAT statement to request a quote for international shipping.  I have the Dashboard Guide Rail Bracket Bundle, and I am very pleased with it.  I bought mine when I still had access to the U.S. mail system, so I have no idea what the international cost would be.

Here is the link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...bYhLNUcyj0qoDcIxEjG6w7ug/viewform?usp=sf_link

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Interesting. Unfortunately the Dashboard ones seem to not be available in Europe. Any alternative aside these and the Festool ones?

To add what [member=73094]afish[/member] wrote, there is a link on the same page just above the VAT statement to request a quote for international shipping.  I have the Dashboard Guide Rail Bracket Bundle, and I am very pleased with it.  I bought mine when I still had access to the U.S. mail system, so I have no idea what the international cost would be.

Here is the link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...bYhLNUcyj0qoDcIxEjG6w7ug/viewform?usp=sf_link

A-ha! Thanks, I got fooled by the checkout page where there's no country available outside from US. I asked for a quote, let's see how it goes

 

[hdv]

I can confirm they do deliver outside the US. I've bought from them and I am In Europe. Good product and nice staff. The shipping costs were quite reasonable.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I’m assuming your issue is getting panels which are exactly the same size? Cut each one from the sheet slightly oversize, clamp a bunch of them together and cut multiple panels in one go.

 

[MaurizioVacca]

After exploring all the different options, I think that for now I will go with the TSO PG 30/50 set as I feel it is the best bang for the buck.

It will integrate pretty well in my current workflow, since I don't stock a large quantity of panels and I have the tendency of processing the sheets as soon as I get them. Also, will give me the opportunity to pre-emptively cut the sheets before moving them to the shop, which is nice.

Doing this way I can just focus on building the new router table and keeping my current workbench for a little longer. Again, it's not something mandatory, but it is really appreciated since it's less time spent in building shop fixture.

I should also admit that despite the quote from Dash-board (amazing staff, really) being really reasonable, going that route means that I would have to wait at least to the second half of April, since the new bracket parts are expected to arrive in mid-March. I hope to have 2-3 projects already done for that time now that I've basically finished my bench spray booth.

Thanks everyone for sharing your tips, everyone has been helpful and bring out some interesting considerations that I carefully evaluated before coming to conclusion.

Best!

 

[afish]

The lead time for the Dash-board unit is really their achilleas heel.  Its always been like that so its not just a covid issue but it probably made it worse.  I know they could sell way more units if they maintained a regular stock.  The majority of people never plan ahead and expect to just buy an item when they need or want it and have it show up at the door 2 days later.  When that cant happen we move on.  I know its a long wait but anyone even remotely interested in it should just go ahead and place their order now.  So, you have it when needed later.  If things change you can always sell it.  If one posted here today it probably wouldnt last an hour.  Heck, you might even be able to ebay it and brake even or profit if someone needed or wanted one asap.  I know I would have paid a few extra bucks even for a used one when I was looking to get it asap.  Either way best of luck with the parallel guides let us know how you like them after some use.

 

[hdv]

You think waiting 3 months is long?  [cool] Try Veritas. I've been waiting since last March for my replacement #5½. Currently they expect delivery somewhere in March.  [crying] I would be happy if they were able to meet that date, but I am not holding my breath... I understand the situation they are in, so I am not complaining about it. But boy, I do miss having a good jack plane.  [sad] My 60½ is OK, but I really do prefer the 5½ for most jobs.

 

[afish]

Yep, the waiting stinks, I was told 2 months for my cnc and it took over 6and that was pre covid.  Same with a festool sander order back in early covid days.  Thats why im saying dont wait till you need it.  If you have "any" plans to keep cutting on mft type bench just order one now dont wait till you really "need" it.  If I was starting from scratch again and know what I know now It would be my first order along with or even before the track saw purchase. I would skip all the fancy MFT drilling jigs/systems and just mark them off with a tape and drill them as close as possible by hand.  When you use a good hinge and a fence the holes dont need to be perfect and become more for clamping and fixturing. 

 

[Alanbach]

Just be sure that when you order the TSO Parallel guide system that you also buy the adapters used to attach them to your rails. Unless you have a GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE that you can attach one or both of the PG’s to. If you don’t already own one of their rail squares you might want to consider that as they work seamlessly with the parallel guides and are super handy.

 

[MikeGE]

Just be sure that when you order the TSO Parallel guide system that you also buy the adapters used to attach them to your rails. Unless you have a GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE that you can attach one or both of the PG’s to. If you don’t already own one of their rail squares you might want to consider that as they work seamlessly with the parallel guides and are super handy.

Even if you do have the GRS-16 or GRS-16PE, the rail adapters are still nice to have.  There are plenty of times I don't want to bother with the GRS-16 and use the adapters because they're faster to set up (for me).

 

[Alanbach]

[member=15936]MikeG[/member] - Agreed!

 

[dashboardpws]

I thought I might chime in about our lead times. I started this whole operation less than three years ago, alone, making early versions of the guide rail brackets by hand on a benchtop mill that wasn't much more than a toy. Initially I even made the boxes by hand from scrap cardboard scrounged off locals on Craigslist. Suicidal, right? Sure. Things have changed almost more than I can recall, even just in the past 12 months, along with the large number of extremely painful lessons learned. We've been continually increasing the quantities of parts we order from our fabricators and simply haven't been able to keep up with the brackets' popularity. The most recent order I placed was around 70% bigger than the largest previous batch, so I'm optimistic that we'll end up with "stock" for the first time. I promise we never stop working to make things better and a main focus for 2022 is to consolidate designs and improve efficiency in everything we do. It all in fact began with a random request from someone right here, who I never heard from again after he got the initial version of the brackets, and I'm enormously grateful to the entire community for your interest and support.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

And I'm going to chime in also (that's an echo, right?). I ordered a Dash-Board from Rob after reading the very laudatory review in Fine Homebuilding. I did have to wait a few months, but I'm very glad I have one. I recently received the "Outriggers" that enable Rob's parallel guide system. I haven't opened the box yet, but it looks like this is the best solution yet to doing narrow rips with a tracksaw and rail.

Rob's system has been evolving--the Track Stars are now cast aluminum, instead of part plywood and carbon fiber. Clients will probably prefer that, but my older versions work fine.

Yes, Rob's customer service--which is Rob himself--is excellent, and operates on weekends as well as during the week.

BTW I just finished the second coat of Osmo on the tabletop, having gotten some ugly black stuff on the surface, which came off nicely with my ETS/EC 125. I'm loving Osmo. Yes, it's a work surface, but the system is built to avoid cutting into the work surface with both cross-cuts and rips, so it's nice to have a more durable surface.

I haven't really posted much about my Dash-Board system, mostly because circumstances have prevented me from diving in to my planned cabinet projects. So far I think the Dash-Board system is going to work much better for me than the MFT/3 table.

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Yep, the waiting stinks, I was told 2 months for my cnc and it took over 6and that was pre covid.  Same with a festool sander order back in early covid days.  Thats why im saying dont wait till you need it.  If you have "any" plans to keep cutting on mft type bench just order one now dont wait till you really "need" it.  If I was starting from scratch again and know what I know now It would be my first order along with or even before the track saw purchase. I would skip all the fancy MFT drilling jigs/systems and just mark them off with a tape and drill them as close as possible by hand.  When you use a good hinge and a fence the holes dont need to be perfect and become more for clamping and fixturing.

I agree, and in that sense I don't regret any purchase. I'm a huge fan of "try to make it with what you have", and my MFT style top have been drilled using my OF1010 and a LR32.
A lot of pre-marking, but once you've two parallel rows, everything else is trivial. It took me probably no longer than 30 minutes to get my top ready, not sure if any "dedicated" jig is faster but it's not something that I really care. I'm doing tops for my self and since I use them mostly for clamping they definitely last longer than my sacrificial boards.

Also, having a fence helps there, since you can put your reference edge against it and square the rail from it. This works really great for me.

Anyway, I will definitely purchase the dashboard rail support, but I can delay it by a few months because it will be part of a project that doesn't have any eta and it's more "a nice to have" than "something I need".

Just be sure that when you order the TSO Parallel guide system that you also buy the adapters used to attach them to your rails. Unless you have a GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE that you can attach one or both of the PG’s to. If you don’t already own one of their rail squares you might want to consider that as they work seamlessly with the parallel guides and are super handy.

Good thing you pointed out because I was 110% sure that one adapter was included within the set. I was clearly wrong and worst part is that currently they're out of stock. I was about placing the order to Axminster, but at this point I'm considering contacting TSO directly and order everything from them. Seems I'm out of luck this time and I will have to wait no matter what.

Best!