How Do You Make Repetitive Cuts on MFT, While Accounting For Kerf Thickness

[Grasshopper]

As the title suggests, I wanted to see what your workflow is for making repetitive cuts on the MFT/3, taking into consideration blade kerf thickness.

Typically, I like the off cut (always marked with little x's) to be on the right side of the blade.  In this setup, I don't have to worry about the kerf, i simply drop the guide rail/splinter guard right on my line and make the cut knowing that the kerf line will fall on the off-cut side leaving me a dead-nuts cut. 

I am still trying to make good use of my MFT/3, and I can't help but notice in everybody's setups that I have seen, the guide rail is on the far right side of the table.  If I wanted the off-cut side to be to the right of the blade, I'd have to locate the full sheet (5' baltic birch) to the right side, which would either really hang off without any fence support, or I'd have to bring the guide rail to the left side of my table.

I must be missing something pretty obvious, so I thought I'd pose the question to y'all regarding how you use the MFT for cuts of sheet goods, taking into account the kerf (as I assume most MFT setups cut the "keeper side" to the right of the rail/blade.

 

[SMJoinery]

Hi Grasshopper

I suppose the easy answer is there is no tips other than adding 2.2mm to each cut (or blade thickness). For this reason and many others I think you will find that the typical workflow is retained workpiece is under guide rail (and saw base) and off cut to right hand side.
This workflow negates the need to add kerf width and can instead promot a set up of the guide directly on your measured line. I can also see that there are accuracy benefits for your retained piece to be held under the rail until the cut is complete.
Festool also give a full user cut splinter guard on the guide rail on the left hand side of the saw but only a small leading edge splinter guard on the right hand side thus affirming the above workflow.

 

[Grasshopper]

Thanks for the reply.  I definitely see the best course is moving your sheet good from right to left as you are cutting on the MFT so you can place the "keeper" piece under the guide rail.

I suppose what I can't figure out, is what do folks typically to to crank out drawer sides, on the MFT/3?

I ripped a sheet of baltic birch to 20" x 60" with the intent to then crank out the drawer sides, bottoms, on the MFT. 

You can see a picture of my cut list below for a better image of the cuts I need to crank through.

Processing a sheet like this at 20"x60" with many 3.5", 2.5" crosscuts doesn't really lend itself to moving the sheet from right to left on the MFT as the off cut side (at least initially) would really hang off the table and not have any fence support to maintain square.

That being the case, I wanted to appeal to FOGgers for how they typically approach a task like this.  Perhaps it is my own lack of experience, but I am less and less drawn to the MFT for the tasks I need to get done, or at least confused for the best way to make the most of it.

[attachimg=1]

Hi Grasshopper

I suppose the easy answer is there is no tips other than adding 2.2mm to each cut (or blade thickness). For this reason and many others I think you will find that the typical workflow is retained workpiece is under guide rail (and saw base) and off cut to right hand side.
This workflow negates the need to add kerf width and can instead promot a set up of the guide directly on your measured line. I can also see that there are accuracy benefits for your retained piece to be held under the rail until the cut is complete.
Festool also give a full user cut splinter guard on the guide rail on the left hand side of the saw but only a small leading edge splinter guard on the right hand side thus affirming the above workflow.

 

[Harvey]

I personally would probably go with my parallel guides first for that, but given your setup- I think I'd either move the track to a mid position to support both pieces or use an 'outfeed' stand (like a ridgid flip top stand, or a set of sawhorses of the proper height) to hold the offcut with the track on the far right. I'd definitely keep the good piece under the track. There's no way I would want to account for blade thickness, unless I figured out some jig to do it 'automatically'. 

 

[Grasshopper]

Thanks for the replies, they jogged my mind and helped me find the right solution.

After thinking hard about this, I figured now was as good as anytime to bust out the rail dogs that I purchased with the Quas Super Pack.  Previously, I was really only interested in the Qwas dogs, but with the price of the super pack I went ahead and got it instead.

Man am I glad I did!  I can just lift up the guide rail to get it out of the way, throw the rail where I need to, squared up using the rail dogs, and drop my 4 qwas dogs down as the fence.  I have the CMS-VL on the right side, so my infeed is large enough as-is.

I like this setup so much I may ditch the MFT fence altogether and just roll with the Doggs as they say. 

 

[ear3]

If I'm not doing it on the table saw, I usually cut oversize and then either gang cut or use a stop, either the flag stop, or for long thin pieces a straight-edge parallel to the rail.  Apparently the MFS extrusions work well for this latter option.  They're inching higher on my next Festool purchase list.

 

[SMJoinery]

On a task like this my first job is as you have done and plan out the sheet to be cut and make my first cuts on the bigger pieces.
When I've cut them I double check there size. If something's not quite right I'll adjust them or use them for smaller pieces.
I'll then check the piece remaining can still achieve my remaining cuts and then keep going with next largest piece until all pieces are cut.
When I can't fully support the off cut and workpiece I'll clamp them to the MFT3 but it's preferable to support. I can use the CMS or my UG extension wings or a work bench to hold the end. I see you have a VL and perhaps that can be used.
I've also got to say that more and more I'm finding that my parf dogs are better for this kind of multiple large piece rips. I can set the rail up halfway along my MFT's and dimension larger pieces with the table supporting or clamping each side.
I hope seeing another workflow helps.
Regards
Scott

Post edit. Jeez you guys posted as I was typing. Qwas dogs or parf dogs open up the options greatly. So does a 3m rail but that's another story!

 

[anthonyz]

As the title suggests, I wanted to see what your workflow is for making repetitive cuts on the MFT/3, taking into consideration blade kerf thickness.

Typically, I like the off cut (always marked with little x's) to be on the right side of the blade.  In this setup, I don't have to worry about the kerf, i simply drop the guide rail/splinter guard right on my line and make the cut knowing that the kerf line will fall on the off-cut side leaving me a dead-nuts cut. 

I am still trying to make good use of my MFT/3, and I can't help but notice in everybody's setups that I have seen, the guide rail is on the far right side of the table.  If I wanted the off-cut side to be to the right of the blade, I'd have to locate the full sheet (5' baltic birch) to the right side, which would either really hang off without any fence support, or I'd have to bring the guide rail to the left side of my table.

I must be missing something pretty obvious, so I thought I'd pose the question to y'all regarding how you use the MFT for cuts of sheet goods, taking into account the kerf (as I assume most MFT setups cut the "keeper side" to the right of the rail/blade.

I just did a recent set up on my table from this recent post http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/mft3-with-cms-fence-cuts-strips-2-200mm/msg368294/#msg368294

I don't use my miter gauge on the backside of the table in order to maximize my cut area to about 26", so I had the miter just sitting around, now I have a use for it. I just added a piece of extruded aluminum to the face.

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

 

[Iceclimber]

Is till cant find much use for my MFT/3 now months after purchase.

Well at least the clamps and fence system. The tables are quite nice stripped down but the fence is gimmicky imop.

So far its a great surface for clamping pieces for sanding or other clamping needs. It also does a great job holding up my CMS VL

Other than that i find it to be kinda a unessisary addition to my shop.

For instance for what you are doing i would use my table saw. If i wanted to go all Festool i would use the parallel guides. But imop the parallel guides would be a pain so i would just use my table saw.

 

[anthonyz]

Is till cant find much use for my MFT/3 now months after purchase.

Well at least the clamps and fence system.

So far its a great surface for clamping piece for sanding or other clamping needs. It also does a great job holding up my CMS VL. Other than that i find it to be kinda a unnecessary addition to my shop.

For instance for what you are doing i would use my table saw. If i wanted to go all Festool i would use the parallel guides. But imop the parallel guides would be a pain so i would just use my table saw.

I personally cut a lot of material with a veneer, which it has been great for that to prevent splintering which my table saw can't do. Also I make mitered boxes for a couple of people and the MFT is great for getting perfect squares when breaking down material. 

 

[leer]

I've only had the Festool track saw for about a year.  I am by no means an expert user.  I chose to make my own "MFT-XL", a big workbench with my own CNC'd top (36"x84").  Since I do not have the guides/protractor supplied with an MFT, I chose rail dogs and bench dogs from Qwas, and bought a set of Seneca Parallel guides.  I am just amazed at how easily I can make repetitive cuts, and not worry about taking the kerf into consideration (with offcut to the right, of course).

I also purchased the Parf Dogs from Lee Valley shortly after I heard about them.  I find them really versatile for things other than track saw use on my workbench.  The long ones are great for holding fixtures.  For example, I use them to hold an arbor press to the workbench.  The dog just drops thru the wooden base I added to the arbor press (very heavy, so no bolting it down is required). I use the arbor press for assembly of lathe-turned pens, but I do not want to make a permanent home for it on a bench or cart, since space is at a premium in my basement shop.

 

[sancho57]

Adj your flag stop by adding 2mm to it to account for the blade thickness

 

[#Tee]

This is exactly why i dont agree with those that thinks the mft/ts can replace the table saw. the table saw is the workhorse of my garage. its a pita to rig up jigs for repetitive cuts not to mention im always switching stock thickness then youll have to lift the front and rear tabs to secure the rail . the miter gauge contraption is garbage to me as im always using the mft holes for 90s and 45s. the mft fence is ok for the flag stop.

 

[rst]

I installed a 52" Incra fence on the long side of my MFT.  I made attachment blocks similar to the Festool ones for attaching the fence  so my Incra sits off the table over the side rails.  As a result I can cut off 29 1/2".  Using the Incra flip stops I can easily make repetitive cuts.  I used this function yesterday to cut shallow saw kerfs in 1/4" ABS for a sandpaper storage bin for my ETS 150 papers.  I needed 1/8" deep grooves to hold .060 dividers space 3/4" apart.  I set the first stop so that it gave me the initial cut.  After making the cut I place a 3/4" spacer between the stop and the material.  By resetting the stop and spacer I was able to make perfectly spaced grooves.

 

[grbmds]

I installed a 52" Incra fence on the long side of my MFT.  I made attachment blocks similar to the Festool ones for attaching the fence  so my Incra sits off the table over the side rails.  As a result I can cut off 29 1/2".  Using the Incra flip stops I can easily make repetitive cuts.  I used this function yesterday to cut shallow saw kerfs in 1/4" ABS for a sandpaper storage bin for my ETS 150 papers.  I needed 1/8" deep grooves to hold .060 dividers space 3/4" apart.  I set the first stop so that it gave me the initial cut.  After making the cut I place a 3/4" spacer between the stop and the material.  By resetting the stop and spacer I was able to make perfectly spaced grooves.

Kind of a side issue, I admit, but can you post pictures of your setup. I have a leftover Incra Ultra Lite positioner distributed by Rockler from a router table I just sold, have bought a Pro-Fence for it and want to mount it on my MFT, but need ideas.

 

[elfick]

im always switching stock thickness then youll have to lift the front and rear tabs to secure the rail

I agree with this part, I think Festool should switch to something like this: http://www.eurekazone.com/product_p/ezt1300.htm

 

[Tinker]

For very short cutoffs that i want to use for project (accuracy intended), I use the rip dogs from RMW.  they really work great.  for very thin pieces, i set up a stop on the out feed side of rail and but the wood to that.  I have tried using the rip dogs and setting up so the saved piece ends up under there rail.  that is accurate as well, but i learned about the above method long before learning about dogs.  (you know: you can't teach an old dog new tricks?) 

I like the method shown about using the fence angle protractor shown in (i think) reply #7 above.  I have not tried that one and will definitely give that a try next time i need very thin pieces. I have cut repetitive pieces as thin as 1/8" by setting up wood stops in the same way that off cut fence has been set up.  that method looks like a lot less setup time than my long used method.  Since i am only 39, i guess i can learn a new trick somehow.  :

If I can feed the ply or dimensions lumber thru from the right, i just set my stops on the fence at the point I need and make the cut, remove the saved piece and slide the off cut under the fence until it reaches the stop. I have an extension added to the right end of my MFT table. Beyond that, i have my CMS.  Between the two, I can handle  the excess length if i don't want to take the time to set up dogs for only one or two cuts. 

So far, i have not found my self in position that i could not make a cut using my TS 55 and the MFT.  Sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling but once set up all falls into place.
Tinker

 

[mouppe]

I use a spacer cut to the desired width, place it on top of the wood to be cut to the right side of the guide rail, flush it with the end and slide both the wood and the spacer up to the saw on the guide rail with the blade lowered (and switched off!).

Hope this makes sense?

 

[Grasshopper]

I really like this concept.  I saw the original post too and thought it was brilliant as an alternative to parallel guides for multiple repeated cuts.

I suppose the same question remainsin this particular setup, how do you account for the Kerf as the "keeper" is to the right in this configuration? If you were cutting multiple, say 3 1/4" strips, the initial setup would call for you adding 2mm to account for the kerf i assume which would only be an extra step one time.  On the other hand, if you needed to crank out a series such as 3 1/4',  3 1/2",  4",  6", 6 1/4" strips, setup for each one would still be a pain as you would need to manually account for kerf thickness with each cut.

As the title suggests, I wanted to see what your workflow is for making repetitive cuts on the MFT/3, taking into consideration blade kerf thickness.

Typically, I like the off cut (always marked with little x's) to be on the right side of the blade.  In this setup, I don't have to worry about the kerf, i simply drop the guide rail/splinter guard right on my line and make the cut knowing that the kerf line will fall on the off-cut side leaving me a dead-nuts cut. 

I am still trying to make good use of my MFT/3, and I can't help but notice in everybody's setups that I have seen, the guide rail is on the far right side of the table.  If I wanted the off-cut side to be to the right of the blade, I'd have to locate the full sheet (5' baltic birch) to the right side, which would either really hang off without any fence support, or I'd have to bring the guide rail to the left side of my table.

I must be missing something pretty obvious, so I thought I'd pose the question to y'all regarding how you use the MFT for cuts of sheet goods, taking into account the kerf (as I assume most MFT setups cut the "keeper side" to the right of the rail/blade.

I just did a recent set up on my table from this recent post http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/mft3-with-cms-fence-cuts-strips-2-200mm/msg368294/#msg368294

I don't use my miter gauge on the backside of the table in order to maximize my cut area to about 26", so I had the miter just sitting around, now I have a use for it. I just added a piece of extruded aluminum to the face.

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

 

[gnlman]

Great ideas here....I too abandoned the protractor and just use some fence dogs to hold the festool fence down nice and tight and square plus get more cross cut as the fence is back further. It also means that I have the protractor stored in a drawer doing nothing so this looks appealing.
anthonyz what size/type extrusion are you using with the protractor. I have a couple of pieces of 8020 15 light gauge sitting around and they do not fit the protractor...
Thanks for the great ideas everyone.
Greg