How do you work?

[semenza]

Hi,

         This thread may be redundant or similar to another but I could not recall or figure a good way to search for it. So here it is anyway

              I am interested in a discussion of how everyone does there  job, work, or hobby. What I mean by that is, your shop and or site methods. Do you use Systainers, Sortainers, or some other container?  Do you keep the tools plugged in and ready to go at the bench?  Do you have separate work stations or one main work area?  Do you set up shop on site or primarily work out of the truck?  The nature of what you do will play into this so please include that also if you like.

            I primarily build custom pieces out of wood. I also do some repair work on furniture, but straight refinishing jobs are out.  I would say my specialty is specialties.  I mainly work in the shop, and generally site work is limited to installs or modifications of something that is existing. But if the piece is easily moveable it goes back to the shop.

            My traveling kit ( as I call it) consists of what would fit into about three or four Systainer  IV s. It is currently in other types of tool boxes, but I am working out the best combo of Systainer and Sortainer to switch too.  I am continuing to use it the way it is for a little while in order to optimise the tools  and such before I decide which Tanos items will work the best.  It is compact enough to fit in the back seat of a car when desired. If i need a particular tool that is not in the kit (a Sawzall for example)  I add it in for the job.

          In the shop I have one large main work bench and a separate cutting table  ( http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3318.0  ) . The tools are almost entirely stored in cabinets.  When I first started buying Festool I was impressed by the Systainers, but did not use them. It seemed to be a nuisance to take tools out of cases. To me the Systainers looked more useful for site work and transport.  This was partly due to the fact that I had only the ATF55 and guide rail accessory set. All of my other tools were in cabinets easily accessible on shelves. So the ATF went on a shelf like the rest. That was my tool system if you will and seemed to work well.
 
         As I started acquiring more Festool products I began experimenting with using the Systainers in the shop.  What I have now discovered is that even though I have to open, close, get the tool and such out. It actually saves me time and effort.  Why?  Because I no longer make multiple trips to the cabinets for tools , accessories, bits, etc.  When I need the router I take the bit off a hook (soon to be in a Systainer, and grab the router case. Everything that I currently have for the router is in the Systainer (and it all fits with out a jumble). Walk to the bench were it will be used and thats it.  I used  to get frustrated having to keep going to the cabinet everytime I changed my mind on the set up etc. And often made at least one extra trip to get something I forgot, like a knob for the edge guide or some such item.
     
         Now if I use the LS130 I pick up the LS130 Systainer attached to the abrasive / pad Systainer and I have it all.  Same for the ETS150 I used to invariably go back to get a different pad or another grit. Now it is one door opening, one grab, one trip to the bench.

         I can definitely see why this method would not work for everyone.  Differing shop layouts, multiple work stations, a more production type set up rather than one of a kind items, as well as personal preference. All would play into this. For example I have seen people work more efficiently with less organisation (at least I would call it less) because it took them too long to organise. Different minds work diffrent ways.

        So what say you all?   Please post how you work.   I welcome comments on my method as well , good or bad.

Seth

srs

         THREE

           

 

[CharlesWilson]

I can answer your question with one word:

Inefficiently.

I wish that weren't the case, but a scrambled mind creates a scrambled workplace.

I have a separate basement section for my workshop, and it is not adequately wired. Only one or two tools can be connected at any one time, and there are between 15 and 20 amps available for the connected tools. There is steel shelving that is about 50% utilized for woodworking, using an inefficient random access storage strategy.

I have tried to reorganize at least a half dozen times, and my effectiveness has probably increased by 20%, but I often have trouble laying my hands on that tool or fixture that I know is stored in there, somewhere. Fortunately, all of my Festool gear is in easily identified locations. I am trying to extend this to all of my other tools and fixtures.

Any easily implemented ideas and suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

Charles

 

[nickao]

CharlesWilson I have all those problems after every project is done.

After all these years I still never put stuff back or clean at the end of the day. By the end of a project, even though I have tons of electrical set up for my shop I am still using extension cords! Organization was another main factor why I got into Festools. They are not a cure all for my bad habits, but they have helped tighten up my shop tremendously!

Nickao

 

[dirtydeeds]

the only way to work is as efficiently as possible. knowing your sequence of operations for the job in hand is the key.

it means you dont have a scrambled mind or scrambled workspace. the layout and set up depends on the work, the avaliable space you have and if you are left or right handed

when renovating box sash windows (the most complicated work i do), most pieces are on offs and are machined out of solid timber and boards

my prefered working area is a flat lawn or driveway, hopefully 4x5 metres on which i put a groundsheet (standing and working in the centre of the groundsheet)

the top long edge has the bench saw, set centrally on the 5 metre (the primary operations, ripping to width / thickness) ct mini underneath

anti clockwise on the short side (im right handed) chop saw on dewalt stand set centrally on the 4m (secondary operations chopping to length)

anti clockwise opposite the bench saw goes the MFT, with ct22 and boom arm set to the back right hand quarter of the bench (because im right handed)

the bench is (obviously) for assembly work, priming, preparation sanding down, reglazing etc.. secondary hand tools under the bench with 3 sanders in one systainer and pads etc

last quarter (4m length) of the ground sheet has the remaining systainers, tools and materials

in the cooler northern hemisphere where i live hopefully you have the MFT facing south for maximum light and heat

assembly and preparation work is the longest job, so heat is imortant in late autum (fall) through to spring 

in winter with short days (not light till 08:30 and dark by 16:30) the MFT orientation can give you a vital extra half hour of work a day 

then in summer you hope it doesnt rain. for those of you who follow tennis wimbeldon (uk) will know that summer thunderstorms can wash out for an hour or two of games at a time

ten minutes later its hot and sunny

 

[semenza]

I can answer your question with one word:

Inefficiently.

I wish that weren't the case, but a scrambled mind creates a scrambled workplace.

I have a separate basement section for my workshop, and it is not adequately wired. Only one or two tools can be connected at any one time, and there are between 15 and 20 amps available for the connected tools. There is steel shelving that is about 50% utilized for woodworking, using an inefficient random access storage strategy.

I have tried to reorganize at least a half dozen times, and my effectiveness has probably increased by 20%, but I often have trouble laying my hands on that tool or fixture that I know is stored in there, somewhere. Fortunately, all of my Festool gear is in easily identified locations. I am trying to extend this to all of my other tools and fixtures.

Any easily implemented ideas and suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

Charles

HI,

      Regardless of what you put your stuff in or on.  Pick a spot for everything, not just the power tools. Anything that goes with something else goes in a spot with it.  Put the items back in that same spot every time, not just on the same shelf, in the same spot on the shelf.  I don't care if the whole shelf is empty. The drill goes on the left end every time.

      If you find yourself having to move tools to make room on the bench it is time to put something away. Don't just move it some more, put it in its spot. 

      If you have stuff out at the end of the day. Do not leave it. Put it away.

              To me that is the basic way to go. You can refine the organisation as you use things. If you rearrange , make it a conscious change. EX- the drill would be more convenient on the right hand end of the shelf, so that is its new spot.  Don't worry too much about picking the perfect spot at first, just pick one. The best places for things will become apparent as you use them. Then make a change.

        Another helpful thing is to weed out. Not necessarily sell, but if it is not getting used at least move it to a "not getting used spot". Leave the prime real estate for the things you use. I have weeded several times over the past four years.  I have more tools than ever, but am on the verge of having an empty floor to ceiling four foot wide cabinet which used to be full. That may get moved out to free up floor space.

Seth

 

[tvgordon]

Seth,

Because for a long time I didn't have a dust collector or filter (let alone a CT22),  I bought tools that came with cases or I bought toolboxes for the tools that didn't have cases.  The cases are store on two heavy shelves.  I like it because it does keep the dust off the tools, but it is also a pain (in my cramped shop) to find a place to set the case then take the tool out and use it.  But at the end of the day, unless I'm going to use the tool the next day, it goes back in the case and back on the shelf.

Recently I started leaving out the ES125 and a cordless drill as a reach for these the most.  If I had the space, I would store the tools out of the cases so it would be quicker to grab and use them.

Cases are good when working outdoors or at a relatives house.

Tom.

 

[semenza]

Seth,

Because for a long time I didn't have a dust collector or filter (let alone a CT22),  I bought tools that came with cases or I bought toolboxes for the tools that didn't have cases.  The cases are store on two heavy shelves.  I like it because it does keep the dust off the tools, but it is also a pain (in my cramped shop) to find a place to set the case then take the tool out and use it.  But at the end of the day, unless I'm going to use the tool the next day, it goes back in the case and back on the shelf.

Recently I started leaving out the ES125 and a cordless drill as a reach for these the most.  If I had the space, I would store the tools out of the cases so it would be quicker to grab and use them.

Cases are good when working outdoors or at a relatives house.

Tom.

Hi,

        Tools that don't have systainers are stored in the cabinets out of there cases.  My cabinets are 24" deep so the cases can go behind the place the tool is located. Easy to get if needed. That was the set up for all the power tools originally. Optionally if the shelf is not deep the tool could be placed on top of the case as long as the case is flat enough.

Seth

 

[ScooterX]

I own a sign construction business, and I'm constantly trying to improve the way I work. As I've added more Festools, my working system has changed. I have a very small workspace for the woodshop operations (8' wide x 14' long x 7-11" high). (Paint and computer is in a different workspace to keep sawdust out of the finishes.)

(the only non Festool power tools in the shop are my Bosch jigsaw and my Dewalt hammer drill).

At first I just moved one Systainer out the way and grabbed another. Last week I was cutting down some 4x8' panels into sign-sized pieces. I needed to use the circular saw, the jigsaw, the router and the finish sander to complete one of the panels. Stacking and re-stacking go tiresome, so I just added a Systainer Port. I had to spend about an hour getting it to the condition I wanted, but now its pretty nice. Its narrow and rolls easily. I might get another, but then i'm left wondering what to do with my hand tools (chisels and hammers and all). No, I don't see the utility in getting more systainers - they're not the right sizes and there is too much wasted space for small tools.

I also just got rid of the big work table and I'm now using an MFT 800 and an MFT 1080. they take up less space, and i can move them around into different configurations.

for me, quick and easy access to tools, being able to keep the shop clean, and being able to move things around to change as my workflow demands is what I'm working on.

 

[semenza]

I might get another, but then i'm left wondering what to do with my hand tools (chisels and hammers and all). No, I don't see the utility in getting more systainers - they're not the right sizes and there is too much wasted space for small tools.

Hi,

        From your description it seems that a couple of the four drawer sortainers might fit right in to your set up for the small tools.  They would of course fit in the sysport, and like the tool systainers fit narrow space problem.  The portabilty option might be good for your multi-room setup too?   

Seth

 

[joraft]

Seth, I'm very glad you started this discussion.

This thread plus the one on building a Systainer-Port has really started me thinking about how I may be able to save space (and steps) by moving everything into somehting like the Festool storage system. I may wind up buying all of the components, or building some. Either way, I've picked up several good ideas already, and hopefully there are more to come.

Thanks,

John

 

[tvgordon]

Seth,

That is a good way of doing it.  Placing the case behind the tool in a cabinet.  One thing I do like about storing the tools in the case is the accessories are always with the tool. 

I'm considering selling my grandfather's sharpening machines, that will free up some space so I can replace the shelves with cabinets.

Tom.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Thanks for the post - ver interesting discussion.  I build furniture as a hobby, right now a fancy half round hall table.  I'm committed however, to making a murphy bed (folds up into the wall when not in use) for a friend - so I suspect a lot of that project will be done on site.  I'm thinking about what tools I will need and how to transport them.

The shop is a three car garage split between bay 2 and 3.  The splitter is a lumber storage rack with an integrated chop saw.

The 2 bay section is for milling lumber and assembly of large parts.  I can back the truck up to the door and either put lumber directly on the rack, on the chop saw table, on the table saw, or on sawhorses for the TS55 to dissect.  Nearby are the cyclone dust collector, jointer, planer, bandsaw, drill press, stationary sanders, router table etc.

At the end of the lumber rack dividers are my two sysports and the clamp rack.

The one bay section houses the hand tool bench and the MFT.  The TS 55 usually resides in a holder attached to the MFT for easy reach.  I have the boom arm and love it.  When I need other Festools, I generally go to the sysport and take what I need, leaving the systainer in the sysport.

The same stool serves the hand tool bench and the MFT and I find myself going back and forth all the time.  Generally one table is acting as a staging area or a glue up area for the activity centered on the other table.

My next organization goal is to organize my hand tools.  I am building two cabinets for them.  The cabinets are hung on the wall near the bench and MFT, but still lack drawers and doors.

I've promised the wife a set of 6 dining chairs in the near future and realize that I really have to get organized before creating all those parts.

 

[nickao]

Seth,

That is a good way of doing it.  Placing the case behind the tool in a cabinet.  One thing I do like about storing the tools in the case is the accessories are always with the tool. 

I'm considering selling my grandfather's sharpening machines, that will free up some space so I can replace the shelves with cabinets.

Tom.

Tom don't so it! I finally got down to one last tool of my grandfathers figuring, well I will sell everything and keep this vise.

The vise was lost in a house fire. Melted! How hot do you think it got to melt that!

Now every once in a while I regret getting rid of the stuff. Nothing to remember him by, tool wise anyway. I used to think about him whenever I saw the tools in my shop, now I do not think of him but once in a great while thinking, wow I wish grandpa had this tool. He would have loved these Festools.

Dam camel no filters killed him at 50, lung cancer. 3 packs a day for 25 years did him in. My grandmother got a measly 30,000.00 in a settlement for some tobacco suit, big deal.

At least keep something of his.

Nickao

 

[tvgordon]

Nick,

I have a couple of my grandfather's toolboxes, some of his tools and a couple of work tables he made.  Plus some furniture he made me when I was a kid.

But I also have about 20 or so sharpening machines of his that I don't use and would free up a lot of space if I sold them.  I think it would be better if somebody used them rather than they sit collecting dust.

Tom.

 

[nickao]

WOW you are lucky to have so many of his things handed down to you! I never had near that much.

Nickao

 

[ScooterX]

re: Systainers/Sortainers for everything:

I need to collect up everything and bring it to the Festool dealer (for me, that's Japan Woodworker) to see what fits into Sortainers and what doesn't. I tried one of the 4-drawer Sortainers and my ratcheting screwdriver was too thick for the 3 small drawers, and looked awkward in the one big drawer.

Then there is the issue of the "other tools" - the short prybar, the hacksaw, as well as my non-Festool power tools. Currently they live in a big Snap-On rolling tool cabinet. Most of them are too wide for a Systainer, so I guess I'm looking at some sort of smaller rolling tool cabinet - or something. Perhaps cabinets on the wall above the SysPort/s.

The Sortainers have a LOT of wasted space. I'm used to the slim roller-bearing drawers of a tool cabinet or machinist chest, and the gritty plastic sliding drawers leave me cold. Especially since I don't need the handles and clips. My current search is for the Holy Grail of a good machinist chest that's only 16" wide, so it could co-habitate with my Systainers.

My other thought, is that I will probably end up building a plywood "SysPort", without sliding shelves. It will have casters on the bottom, but will be to house the Bosch and the DeWalt in their boxes, plus a few other systainers that I use in the field but seldom in the shop. It would be a good choice for a Sortainer, too, since those don't need to slide out on shelves in order to access the contents. Plus, without the sliders, the overall width will be a bit narrower.

Having two MFT tables - one large and one small - has already proven to work better for me than having one large workbench.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

       ScooterX here  http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=127.0  are the drawer dimensions maybe that will help.  I am not necessarily advocating Systainers and Sortainers in this thread.    Maybe building your own mechanics chest to a custom size would work well.  I have some drawers of that style  that I built into a work bench.  about 22" deep, 34" wide, 2" , 4" , and 6" high. I used ball bearing 100# full extension slides.

Seth