How good is Festool Dust Collection

[perton]

I have been fighting with a Makita orbital sander and decided to get an adapter to connect it to my Ryobi Shop Vac. It didn't quite fit, so duck tape came to the rescue. I started sanding plaster top coat on a wall and was astounded at how well it worked. It wasn't dustless, but it was far less than usual. So, now it makes me wonder how well a purpose-built system would work, particularly Festool. I've heard that Festool does dust collection better than anyone, so anyone having used a similar sander and now has a Festool can tell me if the Festool would be equal or better to my jerry-rigged Makita, shop vac, and duck tape.

 

[bobtskutter]

Welcome to the FOG!

I have an RO125 which I use with a Dyson vacuum cleaner.  I've duck taped a Festool hose adapter to the Dyson hose to attach the vac to the sander.

If I'm sanding wood with typical wood grits (P80/120/180) and the sanding pad is on the work piece then it works very well.  If the sanding pad is at the edge of the work piece then there is a little bit of dust escaping.

Using P24 or P40 on wood is OK with the pad on the surface but there is a lot of mess with the pad slightly off the surface.  Using those grits on plaster work is the same story - but the vac fills up very quickly!

I don't think the vacuum is what determines how much dust escapes, it's the sanding pad design and how much of the pad is against the surface.

I've not got a Festool vac, but a lot of people will tell you being able to control the vac suction and having the auto start is a killer feature.

Regards
Bob

 

[Muttley000]

I’m sanding wood not plaster so not sure the difference. With a 6” random orbit sander and the festool vac I see no dust on the surface or floating around my work surface at all. If I wipe my hand across the surface there is a small amount of residue on my skin, but it is not airborn.

 

[Packard]

My Rigid sander needs no adapter to attach to a rigid vacuum, but I usually attach the hose to my shop’s dust collection.  Every once in a while the hose pulls free from the sander.

The Rigid’s dust collector attachment which comes with the sander does an excellent job.  So I usually just use the shop’s dust collection to empty out the bag.

 

[ChuckM]

Any brand of shop vac can do the job of dust collecting. The differences mainly lie in convenience (auto start. e.g.), noise level and filtration. I use a hepa filter for my Ridgid -https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ri...VzwCtBh0EtwBVEAQYBSABEgJHD_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

In terms of effectiveness, I see no difference between my Ridgid (hepa) or Craftsman (hepa) and CT15.

 

[Packard]

I agree that any shop vac will work, but dust collection works best then there is a high volume of air moved, not a high suction.

For example, a $300.00, 1 hp Grizzly unit is rated at 500 cfm.

By comparison a $170.00, 14 gallon, 6hp Ridgid moves about 179 cfm.

While I could find cfm ratings and suction ratings for some shop vacs, I could only find cfm ratings for dust collection systems.

From everything I’ve read, for dust collection, cfm rating is the important number.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I agree that any shop vac will work, but dust collection works best then there is a high volume of air moved, not a high suction.

For example, a $300.00, 1 hp Grizzly unit is rated at 500 cfm.

By comparison a $170.00, 14 gallon, 6hp Ridgid moves about 179 cfm.

While I could find cfm ratings and suction ratings for some shop vacs, I could only find cfm ratings for dust collection systems.

From everything I’ve read, for dust collection, cfm rating is the important number.

I believe that depends on the type of shavings being created and what is creating them. For instance a dust extractor (vacuum) with high velocity and low volume is a poor choice for collecting shavings from a thickness planer. Just like the dust collector with low velocity and high volume is a poor choice working with a palm sander. I believe our British friends would say, "Horses for courses". If the machine creating the mess is helping by throwing the waste in somewhat consistent path, I think an extractor is generally the best choice. If the mess is uncontained, seems like a dust collector stands a better chance. All that said, I usually let the machine decide. If it has a smallish port, I figure the manufacturer knows an extractor is in order. If it has a larger port I use a dust collector.

 

[six-point socket II]

Using a Festool sander (properly equipped with paper or mesh) with Festool dust extractor will most likely give you the least remaining dust on any given surface over most competitors. However, if that is the only aspect you are looking at, you might be fairly disappointed because as good as Festool is, it is not dust free. And comparing the remains might be a hard sell in the end, at the large difference in price.

However, if you want a professional, no duct tape, one adapter/nozzle fits (almost) all, dust extraction solution. Festool tools and Festool dust extractors are an incredibly great choice! And not just for that, as the tools are generally amazing.

I've said this before, and I say it again: I often read posts on various platforms about people looking for adapters, creating 3D printable adapters and accessories to fit tools and dust extractors. With my Festool hoses & nozzles/connectors, be it the old or the new ones, I never had to duct tape anything or to rely on any aftermarket adapters/ 3D printed gadgets.

A couple of weeks ago I had a specialist for concrete sawing over at our place, he had one of those incredible Hilti core drills that can be used both for dry (with dust extraction) or wet cutting. We have a terrible parking situation currently, so he asked if he could use my dust extractor (Festool) so he wouldn't have to make multiple trips to the car. Obviously I had no problem with that, and the hose just attached to it like it was made for it. No duct tape, no adapter, no mess.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[leakyroof]

I have been fighting with a Makita orbital sander and decided to get an adapter to connect it to my Ryobi Shop Vac. It didn't quite fit, so duck tape came to the rescue. I started sanding plaster top coat on a wall and was astounded at how well it worked. It wasn't dustless, but it was far less than usual. So, now it makes me wonder how well a purpose-built system would work, particularly Festool. I've heard that Festool does dust collection better than anyone, so anyone having used a similar sander and now has a Festool can tell me if the Festool would be equal or better to my jerry-rigged Makita, shop vac, and duck tape.

Funny you should ask. I got into buying Festool sanders and the Dust Extractors exactly for Plaster work back in 2004, not woodworking as a 1st choice for spending a fair bit of money at the time.[ ETS 150/5 and a CT-22]
The fact that the same sanders and Vacs worked as well for actually woodworking once I need them to, was just a bonus.
What really helps for Drywall Compounds, or Plaster work, for me, is having a Cyclone set-up before the Vac, so I don't fill the Vacuum bag, or its all important filter, with fine Drywall compound from sanding.  Much more so than woodworking dust in my experience.  Early on, before I had Festool Sanders, I killed one or two regular Shop Vac type vacuums, trying to use them for Plaster Dust Collection, hooked to a Bosch Sander I had at the time. Different animals compared to a Festool or Fein Vacuum, so I did more research before finally taking the Festool Plunge.
  If you only do occasional Plaster work, you won't need to get a small Cyclone. Just have fresh bags on hand for your Festool Vac. And keep an eye on the Vac filter often.
  I also have the Cyclone mounted on my CT-33 Auto-Clean Vacuum, so its a Festool Vacuum that was designed to help self-clean with sanding Drywall type dust in the first place. If you DO have a lot of work with Drywall or Plaster, this IS the type vacuum you'd probably want from Festool in the first place.  I bought mine used, they do come up for sale as someone in the Drywall or Plaster Trade sells off tools in a bad year, or changing out to another Brand/tool set-up.
With this set-up, I can sand floors with a Conventional Floor 8"Drum Sander, fill up the Cyclone box with dust, and not the Festool Vacuum. Anti-static grounding has been an issue for some users with a 3rd party Cyclone attached to a Festool Vacuum, but not for me, with a Festool AS 50mm hose between the two items, and grounding straps/strips on the Cyclone box as well. Regular AS hoses from Festool for all Cyclone to tool extraction as well.

 

[Mr Speaker]

Using a Festool sander (properly equipped with paper or mesh) with Festool dust extractor will most likely give you the least remaining dust on any given surface over most competitors. However, if that is the only aspect you are looking at, you might be fairly disappointed because as good as Festool is, it is not dust free. And comparing the remains might be a hard sell in the end, at the large difference in price.

However, if you want a professional, no duct tape, one adapter/nozzle fits (almost) all, dust extraction solution. Festool tools and Festool dust extractors are an incredibly great choice! And not just for that, as the tools are generally amazing.

+1 on what Oliver said. I have a 3D printer and pretty good design skills. I print a lot of good looking solutions. And I often just go for the Festool ecosystem because it is so well designed to work together. I've banned the use of duct tape on any setup that has to last longer than one day. I have a CTM-MIDI I with a Dust Deputy type cylone mounted on a Festool bin. completely tape free and running fine. That CTM replaced a Bosch GAS 50M, also an M class vacuum, It warns you when it gets clogged up. The Festool outperforms it by a large margin. That setup has 4"hoses all around and looks like a bought setup, so I will keep that. The separator that customers see is the cyclone I bought from Festool. Way more expensive, slightly less effective, but it fit's together so well. It is a professional setup. One thing i did notice is that when sucking up a pile of spillage the DD type can get overwhelmed and stop functioning. i filled up a bag with that action. the Festool cyclone is impossible to overwhelm. It is also way more compact. I would never used a vac again without a separator. I change bags only when I am too late in emptying the cyclone bins. TLDR: I use festool vacs and eparators and I think they are very good and well designed in an ecosystem.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

I agree that any shop vac will work, but dust collection works best then there is a high volume of air moved, not a high suction.

For example, a $300.00, 1 hp Grizzly unit is rated at 500 cfm.

By comparison a $170.00, 14 gallon, 6hp Ridgid moves about 179 cfm.

While I could find cfm ratings and suction ratings for some shop vacs, I could only find cfm ratings for dust collection systems.

From everything I’ve read, for dust collection, cfm rating is the important number.

Yes and no. The particle size and mass matters a lot. The big radical overblown example might be "chips" from milling vs "dust" from sanding. Quoting those terms because I want to exemplify the extremes. For chips, a big volume at lower pressure will move them along just fine, but a higher pressure is warranted for dust because you want less dust to escape, and more to be pulled into the channel of moving air. There's no single rule, but in general, smaller particles should get treated to higher pressure.

Don't spend too much time adapting 4" to 2 1/4" to 1 7/8" ( or whatever your machines are ). Stick with as close to natural sizing as possible as that maintains all the fluid / aero dynamics in play at design time of the suction device and the end-of-the-line tool.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

As has been stated, pretty much any kind of vacuum machine can do the air moving part. That's not all there is to it though. Part of the difference is in the sander itself. Festool sanders are designed with dust extraction as a top priority and it shows.
The rest of it is in the extractor. There are a few advantages of the Festool CT. Auto-start is very nice and improves the overall experience. The ability to regulate the suction is also quite nice and can improve the finish you get by eliminating pig-tail swirls.
The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

 

[jeffinsgf]

The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

Aw come on. I sorta miss it. Kept my arrythmia in rhythm.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

Aw come on. I sorta miss it. Kept my arrythmia in rhythm.

That one literally made me laugh. I certainly don't miss the shocks though.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

Aw come on. I sorta miss it. Kept my arrythmia in rhythm.

This gave me a much-needed giggle today. Thank you, kind sir.

 

[Mr Speaker]

The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

Don't underestimate the danger of static electricity. Wood dust explosions happen all the time. Typically with larger industrial systems, but I am very weary of the dangers, having experienced it in a small setting. It is why good vacuum hoses are so expensive. I 3D print my adapters with ESD filament and ground any part that I can. Dust explosion occur typically in the vacuum tubing. A good thing with a shop vac is that the extraction airflow is separate from the motor cooling airflow.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The last, and probably most important, is the antistatic capability. Shocking yourself every few seconds gets old really fast. Your typical shop-vac is never going to be able to deal with that.

Don't underestimate the danger of static electricity. Wood dust explosions happen all the time. Typically with larger industrial systems, but I am very weary of the dangers, having experienced it in a small setting. It is why good vacuum hoses are so expensive. I 3D print my adapters with ESD filament and ground any part that I can. Dust explosion occur typically in the vacuum tubing. A good thing with a shop vac is that the extraction airflow is separate from the motor cooling airflow.

Only true in a very good shop vac’s like Festool and other European dust extractors. Not true on cheap Shop Vac brand vac’s.

 

[ChuckM]

I've never heard of or come across in the news one single wood dust explosion due to the use of shop vacs in the past 25 years.

If a shop vac is poorly maintained or is misused and causes something bad, don't blame it on the shop vac.

I have 1 CT15 and 4 shop vacs. 0 issues. The shop vacs are used more often than the CT.

I service all of them periodically myself.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I haven't either [member=57948]ChuckS[/member]. It may be due to the volume? I know it's an issue with huge full-shop systems and grain storage/processing plants, but the volume of dust and likely the speed of movement are factors in that.
The dust collector in the shop where I work has a very sophisticated spark detection system, along with a dedicated fire suppression system.

For me, it's the shock factor. My original set-up, in the old shop, was a Shop-Vac, an I-Vacc switch, and the cheap silver Festool hose. Almost every tool would give me a static shock, from the friction of the chips/dust running through the hose.

I would imagine that it takes a perfect ratio of dust to air, a strong enough spark, and most importantly the spark has to be inside with the dust. If the thing is zapping me out here, holding onto  it, seems unlikely

 

[Packard]

Mostly, I use the track saw on my driveway, and my “dust collection” is a leaf blower.

I do have dust collection (a large 2 hp version) in the shop.  And If I have to work in the shop with the track saw, I have the necessary hoses to hook it up.  The shop system works rather well with the track saw.

My biggest culprit for dust and chips is my router.  The radial arm saw has a dust collection port, but that is a joke.  The chop saw kicks the dust against a wall and it is easily vacuumed up.  But dust collection is kind of futile. 

Ive heard that Festool’s routers have effective dust collection.  That would be a motivation to make that purchase.

The drill press, with forstner bits, produces prodigious amounts of chips.  But those bits are used infrequently.