How hard can it be to purchase Hammer products?

[mbrusso]

I  had a chance to talk further about this subject with an inside salesperson who I  work well with in the Toronto area at one of my preferred distributors. They tried bringing Hammer on for equipment sales and it didn't work out.

I  think the sales experience is extremely variable depending on your distributor with this brand. I  see posts where people are completely satisfied and posts where people have had bad experiences (like Mine).  In my case my Hammer F3 was shipped with plenty of handling scuffs and scrapes which to me was unacceptable.  I  also am not overly impressed with the micro adjust fence it comes with. It's a finicky and sticky fence setup which I  just don't like.

So far I  can say that the Festool service model has been the best hands down of any product I  have purchased. A very long warranty period, and if something goes wrong, all you have to do is enter the serial number and a waybill is generated, and it costs you nothing to send it away and have it shipped back.

 

[travisj]

I have an A3-31 on the way from Texas, but I worked with Liz Rogers in California.  She was more than helpful.  We talked on the phone a few times and have exchanged several emails.  She answered all of my questions.  The machine should be here in a couple of weeks and in anticipation I asked her about the electrical requirements.  And this is part of what she sent me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[egmiii]

There has been a ton of debate over the years as to what wire and breaker size is required for this machine. What has worked for one person, does not work for others. Paperwork shipped with the machine sometimes doesn't match what the reps say. It's better to be safe than sorry, so my recommendation is to use 10G wire from the panel to the machine receptacle. Start with a 20A breaker. If it pops on startup or under heavy load, step up to a 30A. Way easier/cheaper to replace a breaker than to pull a new circuit.

 

[Max Fracas]

FWIW, before I moved my workshop from California to Louisiana, I successfully ran my A3/41 on a 20A breaker.  Have the same setup waiting in Louisiana and certainly hope it works!

 

[Bohdan]

There has been a ton of debate over the years as to what wire and breaker size is required for this machine. What has worked for one person, does not work for others. Paperwork shipped with the machine sometimes doesn't match what the reps say. It's better to be safe than sorry, so my recommendation is to use 10G wire from the panel to the machine receptacle. Start with a 20A breaker. If it pops on startup or under heavy load, step up to a 30A. Way easier/cheaper to replace a breaker than to pull a new circuit.

It's not the size of the breaker but the curve that is important. Make sure that it is a D type breaker which is designed for much larger startup current pulses.

Quoting from ETA

"B curve breakers: Trip between 3-5 times rated current in a short circuit situation.  B curve MCBs should be applied where loads are resistive and do not have in-rush current.  The ideal application is lighting or electronic circuits.

C curve breakers: Trip between 6-10 times rated current in a short circuit situation. C curve MCBs should be applied where the loads have a small amount of in-rush current on start-up. The ideal application is a circuit with a small transformer load.

D curve breakers: Trip between 10-15 times rated current.  D curve MCBs should be applied where loads have a high level of in-rush current on start-up.  The ideal application is a circuit with a motor load."

 

[ben_r_]

There has been a ton of debate over the years as to what wire and breaker size is required for this machine. What has worked for one person, does not work for others. Paperwork shipped with the machine sometimes doesn't match what the reps say. It's better to be safe than sorry, so my recommendation is to use 10G wire from the panel to the machine receptacle. Start with a 20A breaker. If it pops on startup or under heavy load, step up to a 30A. Way easier/cheaper to replace a breaker than to pull a new circuit.

It's not the size of the breaker but the curve that is important. Make sure that it is a D type breaker which is designed for much larger startup current pulses.

Quoting from ETA

"B curve breakers: Trip between 3-5 times rated current in a short circuit situation.  B curve MCBs should be applied where loads are resistive and do not have in-rush current.  The ideal application is lighting or electronic circuits.

C curve breakers: Trip between 6-10 times rated current in a short circuit situation. C curve MCBs should be applied where the loads have a small amount of in-rush current on start-up. The ideal application is a circuit with a small transformer load.

D curve breakers: Trip between 10-15 times rated current.  D curve MCBs should be applied where loads have a high level of in-rush current on start-up.  The ideal application is a circuit with a motor load."

Im not sure we have such ratings in the USA for breakers. I cant seem to find any on my breakers from the manufacturers website and I have never heard of them before.

 

[IndyWoodworker]

There has been a ton of debate over the years as to what wire and breaker size is required for this machine. What has worked for one person, does not work for others. Paperwork shipped with the machine sometimes doesn't match what the reps say. It's better to be safe than sorry, so my recommendation is to use 10G wire from the panel to the machine receptacle. Start with a 20A breaker. If it pops on startup or under heavy load, step up to a 30A. Way easier/cheaper to replace a breaker than to pull a new circuit.

I just recently purchase a Hammer A3-26 jointer/planar and had my electrician install a 30 Amp breaker.  From what I read in the instructions and online it made sense to go bigger at the start.  As mentioned a 20 amp should be sufficient, but since I was using an electrician, we opted to go bigger and there was no cost difference. It will give me some growth capability should I get other Hammer machines in the future which so far I plan on at least the N4400 bandsaw.  My thanks to all that respond to the questions on Hammer machines.  At least this site is more informative than some other Felder/Hammer group sites.  Also, I am learning something from the responses. 

 

[rljatl]

[member=11847]IndyWoodworker[/member]

Before buying an N4400, be sure to price a Felder FB510.  I bought the 510 because at the time, it was only $600 more than the 4400.

 

[IndyWoodworker]

Any particular reason?  I am just getting familiar with the Felder products so I could use the advice of woodworkers that use their equipment. 

 

[rljatl]

Any particular reason?  I am just getting familiar with the Felder products so I could use the advice of woodworkers that use their equipment.

Some people say that you have to get into the larger saws with 19" wheels and stronger frames before you can properly tension the wider blades used for resawing.

It seemed to make sense to me for only a relatively small price difference.

 

[ben_r_]

[member=11847]IndyWoodworker[/member]

Before buying an N4400, be sure to price a Felder FB510.  I bought the 510 because at the time, it was only $600 more than the 4400.

I have the N4400 and its worked fine for years on a 20 amp circuit.

That and I also considered the FB 510 when I bought my N4400 and I wish now I would have gone with the Felder. Its bigger, nicer and better in pretty much every way and only costs a little more but comes with more. Not that I dislike or would sell my N4400, I just would have rather had the FB 510.

 

[IndyWoodworker]

Thanks for the advice, I have taken a look at the FB510 and the option to move to this model is still under consideration.  I am stepping away from a Delta bandsaw that served me for years and wanted to upgrade to a larger bandsaw.  It is good to note that I can operate it at 20A as I already have service into my shop for the amperage, all I would do then is put in a new outlet.

Any thoughts on a sliding table saw?  I am moving into retirement and I want to upgrade my shop one more time.  I have been looking at the European sliding table saws and thought that might be an improvement on the Delta Unisaw which I had for years.

 

[egmiii]

Any thoughts on a sliding table saw?  I am moving into retirement and I want to upgrade my shop one more time.  I have been looking at the European sliding table saws and thought that might be an improvement on the Delta Unisaw which I had for years.

There are as many opinions on sliding tables saws as there are woodworkers. Higher volume productions shops will tell you to buy a beam saw and CNC machine. Others will tell you to build a sled for your Delta and buy a TS55. All valid opinions. For me (hobbyist doing furniture/cabinetry work), the Felder KF700s fits my needs better than a conventional saw/SawStop, and I'll recommend one to anyone with the space and budget. A full sized Felder saw will require a 15' x 23' area without obstructions and starts around $10,000 before options.  If you don't plan to use it for panel work, a smaller Hammer machine would likely require half the space and budget and still serve you very well.

If you're serious about purchasing a Hammer/Felder machine, join the Felder Owners Group on Yahoo. There are dozens of very active members who can answer all your questions.

 

[younger]

[member=49475]patriot[/member]

It's been a bit over a year since you ordered the K3, so about 6 months since you received your  79x48 K3 I'm guessing  

How do you like it?  Are you happy with it?  I ordered mine early February and won't receive it until Mid June.  I was told that it would include the updated flip stop for the crosscut fence that they made based on [member=22281]marius[/member] Hornberger's design  

A friend of mine purchased the K3 the same week that I did. He was also promised the new flip stop but it was not installed on the one that he received last week and he was told he would have to pay an additional $100 for it.  I think that is unacceptable.

Have you had any issues with your flip stop?  Is there anything that you don't like about the K3? 

I am now considering cancelling that order and going with the minimax sc 2c.

Thanks much for this thread and I hope that you are extremely happy with it as it looks like a great saw.

 

[MauckHwk]

To anyone still following this thread -- I saw on here a few references to the West Coast (Sacramento) salesman named Fergus Cooke. 

I have to say, if anyone is unfortunate enough to have to deal with Fergus (though I think he now deals more with businesses and not as much with hobbyist woodworkers), you have my sympathies.  I've been woodworking for many years and I've had a lot communication with Fergus.  He is not a very customer-centric salesman.  He doesn't want to listen as his focus is  often dismissive, marginalizing, as though the customer needs to simply be told what they need. 

I've asked for quotes for just basic machines.  I felt very snubbed when he responded with a "what would be the point of that?"  I felt like I was being challenged on my request and that I had to defend myself for asking.  I just wanted a good starting point for budgeting.  He tends to "correct" me quickly and sound insulted that I would ask for a quote for a machine without any upgrades.  Fergus is in the business of making a commission.  He can be a nice person but I don't think he has an inkling of how uncomfortable it can be for the customer(s) dealing with him.  I cringe when the phone goes to him and that's not a good feeling as a customer.  I've even gone so far as to consider going through the Dallas location and shipping to the West Coast to avoid him.  Sorry if you're reading this, Fergus Cooke.  I have to be honest, though.

 

[travisj]

I’ve never dealt with Fergus, but Liz in Sacramento has been awesome to work with.  It took me awhile to pull the trigger on my A3-31.  She worked through all of my questions and was patient with my timeline, never pushy.  When I’ve had follow up questions after I received the machine, I would send her an email (usually at night).  The longest I have had to wait for a reply was mid-morning the following day.  Often she would reply that night or even on a weekend.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ben_r_]

Yep, Ive dealt with Liz, Fergus and most recently Ryan and all have been very helpful. Fergus is definitely a sales orientated guy but I never felt it was to the point of being rude. Liz has always been very kind and helpful to me and Ive been working with her on and off since I bought my N4400 a few years ago. Ryan is a lot newer around there and was very helpful and nice. I should add Im the type of customer that comes in knowing darn near everything about a product long before I make it in a store/showroom to buy it, so I really didnt have many questions for any of them. Pretty much just how fast can you get me the machine and whats the lowest price we can go?

 

[krudawg]

I've been feeling guilty for highjacking the 'Attention HAMMER K3 WINNER owners!!' thread so thought it best to begin my own thread on the issues I have had thus far in trying to purchase the K3 table saw.

To recap: I contacted a Felder/Hammer rep - David Brooks, whose email address was posted in the aforementioned thread. This past Monday (6MAR17) he contacted me and together with Jesse Maynerich (Senior Sales Representative at the New Castle, DE Felder Group) they provided links to videos and were answering every question I had. When I asked Mr. Brooks what s/h would be for the K3 he asked for my address.  When he realized that I lived in New Mexico he said that I lived in the CA district and he would have to have a CA rep take over.  He said he would provide the CA rep with all of my questions and he would soon call me.  The call the from the CA rep (I am not naming him intentionally because I have an email in to Mr. Maynerich and will let him deal with this rep) came through in short order and we had a nice chat.  I apologized for needing all the info and the CA rep said no problem as he understood it was a pricey machine and he would be happy to answer all of my questions as soon as he could.  Just to be clear this was 6 Mar 17.

By 9 Mar - this past Thursday, I had not heard back from the CA rep. So I contacted the Dallas Felder office via their Contact page.  Then as if by magic I suddenly hear back from the CA rep whose email began with 'Thank you for your time on the phone today.'  Today?  This was followed by '... and let me know if you have any questions.'  Then he had the balls to attach a contract for me to sign. Smoke was coming out of my ears by this time which was making Bella (our border collie) bark at me.

I will not try to figure out what this person's problem is but I will say this: I was very serious about wanting to purchase the K3 and now the N4400 as well, but this sale went south once Mr. Brooks handed me off to Mr. CA Representative.

As noted above I am in the process of composing a letter to Mr. Maynerich and will send it off tomorrow.  My original missive was worded a bit too 'harshly' and decided to wait a day or two to simmer down.  My wife is very good a making me simmer down: "Either you chill out or you'll be sharing Bella's bowl! So which is it?"  Yes, mam.

Going slightly off topic ...

Why do I want the K3?  There must be some reason I am enduring all of this pain, right? 

I want the K3 for a lot of reasons, but IMHO what really separates the K3 from the rest of the consumer table saws is its ability to use 12-inch blades.  The K3 would actually make my shop bigger because I could sell my current Craftsman TS AND my Craftsman 12-inch radial arm saw.  I love my RA because it will cut 4-inch stock while my TS will only slice 3-1/8" stock (as I recall) if not using one of my sleds.  However, when the RA's 220V motor rev's up you'd better be on full alert because IMHO this machine is the most dangerous power tool in my shop.  I know my RA backwards and forwards - I've had it since the early 70's, and it has served me very well, but a TS with a 12-inch blade would be preferable to owning my RA and my TS.

One could argue that all you have to do to slice 4-inch stock on a 10-inch TS is to flip the stock 180 degrees.  I can't argue that, but unless your stock is perfectly symmetrical and is being pushed through the blade via a perfectly perpendicular sled or miter gauge then you may end up with a not-so-perfect 4-inch slice.  This is just how I see my woodworking world and not everyone will agree.  I get that.  I go to great lengths to insure that all of my gear is as perfectly aligned as is humanly possible.  Again I can hear my lovely wife telling dinner guests how I "engineer my woodworking projects."  I have to admit she is correct. I have no excuses. Yes, mam.

Why not purchase a SawStop?  Ah, another great question.  From all of my research and from someone who has used one for several months, the problems are as follows: 

• Problem #1. The simple act of changing blades can prevent the machine from running because the sensor must to be a predetermined distance from the blade.  If the new blade is not a perfect match you have to adjust the sensor to get it to work.  I really do not want a TS that I have to fiddle with everytime I change blades.
• Problem #2 is that you need a complete new sensor for dadoing. 
• Problem #3 the fact that this machine is just waiting to save my fingers by imploding its blade into the aluminum block would drive me nuts.

While this technology may be just the ticket for those who are prone to sticking their finger's where they do not belong, it just makes me very uncomfortable.  I can see all of the hammer's being thrown at me.  I get all the safety stuff and I know that 'accidents happen', but I would very much prefer a TS that started up regardless of what blade I needed for the job at hand.  But, and we all know there is a 'but ...', I may end up with one if I am not sucessful at purchasing the K3. 

All of this drama will play itself out in the next week or so.  Until then, thanks for hearing me out.

I bought a Hammer K3 Winner 31X31.  I got interested in it after watching a YouTube Video by a young Austrian who spoke very well about the saw.  I went on line.  Filled out a form of what I wanted and within a few days I received a Call from a Rep named Martin.  He went into great detail about the saw and the buying process  and that he had a Hammer K3 31X31 in stock at the Sacramento Showroom.  I sent him a Cashiers check and about 3 weeks later took delivery of the saw.  I was very impressed with Martin.  I've owned the saw nearly 3 years now and get phone calls from Martin once or twice a year to see if I am enjoying the saw and if I need any other Hammer power tools.  Not sure why you had such issues with buying a Hammer and I am sure they will accommodate you

 

[krudawg]

[member=49475]patriot[/member]

It's been a bit over a year since you ordered the K3, so about 6 months since you received your  79x48 K3 I'm guessing  

How do you like it?  Are you happy with it?  I ordered mine early February and won't receive it until Mid June.  I was told that it would include the updated flip stop for the crosscut fence that they made based on [member=22281]marius[/member] Hornberger's design  

A friend of mine purchased the K3 the same week that I did. He was also promised the new flip stop but it was not installed on the one that he received last week and he was told he would have to pay an additional $100 for it.  I think that is unacceptable.

Have you had any issues with your flip stop?  Is there anything that you don't like about the K3? 

I am now considering cancelling that order and going with the minimax sc 2c.

Thanks much for this thread and I hope that you are extremely happy with it as it looks like a great saw.

I never had a problem with my flip stop but after watching Marius H. video of the flip stop, I ordered one.  I like the new design and it was very simple to install it

 

[bgm1911]

I purchased a 22k tool from them, and they didn't even ship me what I was supposed to be buying.  I argued with the US CEO for quite awhile, and he did nothing but defend his sales rep: " he's a good sales person".  They eventually built my correct machine, and shipped it.  At least they sent a tech to setup up the new machine and box up the other.

However, based on that miserable experience, I'll never buy another tool from that company again.