How parallel is parallel

woodshopdemos

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I posted "how square is square" two weeks ago and was surprised at the degree of interest in the subject.  And it was all good. So now, Elena and I put together two pages on making parallel cuts. They are not easier than making square cuts, nor are they less important. I find that the two methods, square and parallel pretty much alternate in any panel cut up job. What do you think.

Here is the post:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-sq-2.htm

fes-sq21.jpg
 
John,
I like the idea of cutting off those rulers.  So much quicker, and probably eliminating errors, than the way i have been stretching measuring tape across the top of the guide bar.
Tinker
 
John- I read your article / web page about using the cut off rulers.  Here is a diffrent twist on that idea.  It would cost a bit more, but has some other advantages.  The other day, in my local woodworking store, I noticed that they were selling 48 in long combination squares, with center heads and measured and marked blades.  The cost was pretty cheap, about $30 each, and the scales of the blades were made of some pretty stout aluminum extrusions.  Applying the same logic, you could buy two, cut off the Festool rail width from each end, and  there you go, two scales, with sliding square heads that would allow you to d what you have done with the aluminum rulers.  An old toolmakers trick, when using two combination squares for laying out work is to set one square to the scale, and set the other scale and square by laying the blades on top of each other (wide face to wide face ..), butting the end of the loose blade against the fixed square head, and then sliding and setting the other square head to the end of the fixed blade.  This assures that both blades are set to pertrude exactly the same from both squares.  This was very useful when laying out sheetmetal templates and the like, back when toolmakers used to lay out all of their work before they began machining.  Nowdays, layout work is not seen as often and is almost a lost art, just like inspecting machined parts on a surface plate.  When I was an apprentice, one of the first things we learned was the difference between square, parallel and flat, and what all three of those actually mean, and how they are completely independent from each other, yet completely necessary for all true dimensions to exist.  Over my career (30+ years) I have explained the concepts to many graduate engineers, who were never taught correctly during school.  Then just when they start to get the concept, I remind them that square, flat and parallel has nothing to do with plumb and level.....and watch them scratch their heads.....that should start some discussion going.....
Jay Evans
 
In my old house there are no two things within sight of one another that have any of these characterisics, not even singly, except for the few bits I've added.

"square, flat, parallel, plumb, level"
 
sgryd said:
How about Jerry Works concept using the MFS? I got so inspired by his MFS document so I bought one today.

I agree with you Michael!  I've seen Jerry's MFS document before, but last night I decided to take a closer look.  All I can say is, what an amazing document!  The amount of information in this MFS manual could keep me busy for quite some time.  Like all good instructional materials, it not only gets you thinking about the specific techniques it describes, but it also gets you thinking of new ideas on your own.

Matthew
 
What a great idea!  Next time I go to the hardware store a couple of long rulers are following me home!
Thanks again for the inspiration and knowledge we get from you!
Jess
 
What is the preferred method of cutting the long rulers?  Will my TS55 with the standard blade if the rulers are aluminum?
 
good idea.  I don't have a trion but I do have a good bosch with the blade guides.  I suppose it would work in a pinch.  I would think it would make sense to tape the two pieces together and cut them both at the same time to guarantee both rulers would be exactly the same length.
 
Michael Kellough said:
In my old house there are no two things within sight of one another that have any of these characterisics, not even singly, except for the few bits I've added.

"square, flat, parallel, plumb, level"

In my house, there also is nothing level or plumb, or even square.  walls are parallel and ceiling & floor are parallel to each other.  A few years ago, THE Boss decided she wanted  new kitchen cabinets.  I designed, but let a shop build while I installed.  when the cabinet maker measured for installeation, I told him to take into account that there was 1-1/4" difference in level from one corner to the diagonal corner.  This in a space measureing about 8x10.  The walls were out of plumb by 3/4 inch.  He said it made no difference.  I figured I would be in for trouble, but did not argue.  sure enough, when the cabs came, I had a problem.  It was quite a trick to get everything looking level and plumb, countertop exactly level, while everything else looks level and plumb.  Today, nobody can see the difference.

When i was a mason contractor, i often had to build fireplaces that looked square & plumb that fit within rooms that were nowhere near those characteristics.  One time (on a brandnew house nevertheless), I had to construct a 10 foot hearth with a 4ft wide brick facing to the fireplace.  The floor was 1-1/2 inch out of level while the ceiling was level.  how they ever accomplished that, i will never know.  I asked the foreman about it and he did not want to know anything about it.  I went ahead and built.  As a mason, i had what we called "coursing rules" which had markings for various heights to each course with a number for each thickness per course.  Using the methodology. and using a different reference number for each side of the brickwork, I was able to get everything level by the top of the fireplace opening.  when the builder (a realtor) came and started measuring for the woodwork that would surrond the fireplace, he discovered the discrepancy and told me i would have to tear down the brickwork and make it level and square.  When i pointed out his own error in level and parallel and that to correct that, he might have to tear down the house, he turnedsort of blue, but decided everything was alright. 

It just makes a difference whose shoes are pinching.  Oh yeah.  i got paid.  He and i parted company on another house when i was called to estimate for a huge fireplace and chimney that had to go over and already constructed concrete floor.  I had noticed that one foundation wall of the cellar seemed to be out of line.  It seems he had laid out the formwork wrong and one wall had to be moved four feet to make it parallel to a far wall.  I had to figure for a four foot wide by 20 foot  long chimney base and insisted he had to break out the concrete floor where the footing had to be so I could put in a proper footing for my work.  He insisted that would not be necessary, that he had not made a mistook.  Needless to say, the proof was already there that a mistook had been made, so i left with the reply that if he could not prove exactly where the footing was, i was not going to do his work. 

Parallel is sort of important, whether hobby, or real hard world.
Tinker
 
The discussion above gets us back to the reasoning that parallel should be parallel.

How parallel?

The paralleler the better!

Loren
 
Tinker said:
In my house, there also is nothing level or plumb, or even square.  walls are parallel and ceiling & floor are parallel to each other.  A few years ago, THE Boss decided she wanted  new kitchen cabinets.  I designed, but let a shop build while I installed.  when the cabinet maker measured for installeation, I told him to take into account that there was 1-1/4" difference in level from one corner to the diagonal corner.  This in a space measureing about 8x10.  The walls were out of plumb by 3/4 inch.  He said it made no difference.  I figured I would be in for trouble, but did not argue.  sure enough, when the cabs came, I had a problem.  It was quite a trick to get everything looking level and plumb, countertop exactly level, while everything else looks level and plumb.  Today, nobody can see the difference.

When i was a mason contractor, i often had to build fireplaces that looked square & plumb that fit within rooms that were nowhere near those characteristics.  One time (on a brandnew house nevertheless), I had to construct a 10 foot hearth with a 4ft wide brick facing to the fireplace.  The floor was 1-1/2 inch out of level while the ceiling was level.  how they ever accomplished that, i will never know.  I asked the foreman about it and he did not want to know anything about it.  I went ahead and built.  As a mason, i had what we called "coursing rules" which had markings for various heights to each course with a number for each thickness per course.  Using the methodology. and using a different reference number for each side of the brickwork, I was able to get everything level by the top of the fireplace opening.  when the builder (a realtor) came and started measuring for the woodwork that would surrond the fireplace, he discovered the discrepancy and told me i would have to tear down the brickwork and make it level and square.  When i pointed out his own error in level and parallel and that to correct that, he might have to tear down the house, he turnedsort of blue, but decided everything was alright. 

It just makes a difference whose shoes are pinching.  Oh yeah.  i got paid.  He and i parted company on another house when i was called to estimate for a huge fireplace and chimney that had to go over and already constructed concrete floor.  I had noticed that one foundation wall of the cellar seemed to be out of line.  It seems he had laid out the formwork wrong and one wall had to be moved four feet to make it parallel to a far wall.  I had to figure for a four foot wide by 20 foot  long chimney base and insisted he had to break out the concrete floor where the footing had to be so I could put in a proper footing for my work.  He insisted that would not be necessary, that he had not made a mistook.  Needless to say, the proof was already there that a mistook had been made, so i left with the reply that if he could not prove exactly where the footing was, i was not going to do his work. 

Parallel is sort of important, whether hobby, or real hard world.
Tinker

Thanks Tinker. What a wonderful and worthwhile story!

Dave
 
Tinker, I had forgotten my house of years back until you wrote. It was a house built in 1900, 3 story, 9 bedrooms, 7 bathrooms, and built well except for one main footing right in the center of the house.  I knew that it was not a level house since I had to take a break when walking on the 2nd floor. In my rush to make things right, I bought an 8' level and started making marks here and there. Got a contractor in and asked him to submit an estimate for making the 2nd and 3rd floor level. He took me around the house and pointed to about 56 spots before I got the idea that he was suggesting...not to touch a thing. He was right, every door, frame, floor, etc had been "corrected" over the years and to make the floor level would have been disastrous and costly. I fixed it. There was a lot of room on both floors where is was most visible. I built rack for flowers and herbs with copper trays...and conveniently, they covered up where the discrepancy showed the most and drained excess water to a collection point. That was in one my earlier years when I was newer at making mistakes not be mistakes .. but benefits.
 
I grew up in a house built in the 1790s. Foot by a foot chestnut beams. 18" wide eastern pine floorboards. A whole bunch of parts of growing up in that house (and out in the country like that) that have spoiled me as an adult...

But one of the local contractors that my parents hired when they couldn't do the work themselves said that he worked on a lot of such houses, and the first thing you did was take your square and your level out into the driveway and run over them with your truck a few times, so that occasionally they'd match the house.
 
The story sticks I have used for this type operation have been 52" lengths of Incra's Incremental Track.  The scales on these tracks (along with the stops) can be adjusted to accommodate for the the width of the guide rail.  Works great, but somewhat (slightly) bulky for this job if too long for the specific cut...

Also, I have found the stops from the hole drilling kit work rather nice...

Corwin
 
The hole drilling stops can be attached to the guide rail on either side allowing one to either index the material from the left side or the right side of the cut.  My first cut using this method was a full 97" cut and I was most impressed with the result -- excellent!

The Incra track is really easier as once the tracks have been calibrated (really easy) they are good to go -- just set the stops to the desired measurement on each length.  Really a no brainer and dependable results.

I would love to have the time to cover many of these capabilities, but sadly I am currently in one of those times when life has tossed a curve ball.  Recently my mothers health required a change in living arrangements so we looked for another house with a shop and guest house.  Ended up buying land with the intention of building same by the end of the year.  Closed on property Friday...  mom died on Sunday.  Now what?  It will be some time before I will have time in my shop.  But, this board does offer a distraction from my current concerns.

Corwin
 
Corwin,

Sorry for your loss. No matter when it happens, it is hard to accept.

Looking forward to your posts on the Incra track after time has allowed.
 
Corwin,
  I, too, am sorry for your loss.  But, this board does offer a distraction from my current concerns.

  It is nice that this is possible. And since you are a Festoolie, don't forget some 64 pages kn Festool products at Woodshopdemos.  Here is the Festool submenu: Festool Menu on woodshopdemos.comclick here.
 
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