How to best align Domino for joining mitered casing?

[fatroman]

I'd like to use the Domino to join casing at the miters so there's a good glue joint, but I've run into a bit of a problem that I'd like some advice on.

Here's the profile, and you can see that laying the Domino across the face isn't going to work.

I've registered off the back side, which works, but I've found slight differences in the thickness of the casing. And by registering off the back, the backs of two pieces line up perfectly, but not the face. Not exactly the ideal solution.

Best idea I've come up with, but not yet tried, is to take a second piece of casing, invert it so the faces meet, and then register down off of that. Anyone have a better suggestion than that?

 

[Sparktrician]

Best idea I've come up with, but not yet tried, is to take a second piece of casing, invert it so the faces meet, and then register down off of that. Anyone have a better suggestion than that?

That's exactly what I did.  Just be careful and don't over-clamp which can crack the casing.  Also, I stayed as close to the outside in the thickest area, and used 4mm dominoes. 

[smile]

 

[awdriven]

Is there enough meat on that molding to locate the domino properly? I tried an experiment with doing this, but in this case (no pun intended), my biscuit joiner worked better because the thickness of the domino meant I had to locate it further toward the outside of the casing. Most of the time, the problem with these casings separating is having the short ends of the miter come apart. The biscuit is thinner and can be centrally located, closer to the area withthe strongest tendency to open.

In terms of registering, I just laid the domino machine on my MFT top and used some card stock offer the casing if one piece was thinner than its mate.

The comparatively sloppy biscuit is also helpful in this case because I can just tweak the pieces into alignment as I clamp them and there is no fussing with shims required.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Yeah, clam clamps and glue.

That is all.

 

[gbruzze1]

This is definitely one of the places where a domino is not better then a biscuit.  Biscuit will also allow for some wiggle in case the thickness of the casings are off.  Biscuit, clam clamp, glue.

 

[tiralie]

Yeah, clam clamps and glue.

Yes, clam clamps and glue.
If you really want to get fancy you could use the Lamello self E20 clamping biscuits, (http://www.lamello.com/en/downloads/application-videos/wood-joining-system/joining-wood/the-self-clamping-biscuit-e20.html) but you have to be careful not to go through the profile.

 

[tbellemare]

I'm assuming you're talking about an inside corner, an outside corner would be handled like any other miter.

The flipping and mating solution to give you a registration surface sounds a little unwieldy but should work fine once you get it set up.

If you want a loose or sloppy joint with a Domino, just use the next bigger bit. In this case, a 5mm bit and 4mm Domino. Just set the depth for the 4mm Domino.

Tom

 

[Alan m]

to me this looks like paint grade. could you miter bond it . could you glue and pin it with a brad nailer etc and fill it..
if it isnt paint grade you could counterbore and plug the nail hole or screw hole.

[2cents]

 

[mouppe]

Rotate the dominoes 90 degrees, with one mortise on the medium setting, and register off the top edge.

Use the 4mm dominoes and be careful not to blow through the front. This will allow you to laterally adjust the fit. 

 

[fritter63]

The general contractor I used a consultant while building my house made me memorize a mantra:

'We ain't building a piano here..."

Trim goes on with nails for a very good reason, so you can pull it off easily when you need to. There is a way to shoot 18 ga. nails through
that joint to keep it aligned. I did that and even as an amateur I didn't have problems.

I think a domino would be overkill, and would definitely earn you a few cuss words either from yourself or the next poor guy who has to remodel down the road...

 

[fatroman]

Thanks all, I think I'll call Jim Chestnut today and get some clam clamps.

to me this looks like paint grade. could you miter bond it . could you glue and pin it with a brad nailer etc and fill it..

It is paint grade, and that's exactly what I've been doing. But it would be nice to get a tighter joint, which it looks like the clam clamps will afford.

I'm assuming you're talking about an inside corner, an outside corner would be handled like any other miter.

...

If you want a loose or sloppy joint with a Domino, just use the next bigger bit. In this case, a 5mm bit and 4mm Domino. Just set the depth for the 4mm Domino.

Not inside or outside like crown or base, it's just an outside corner for windows/doors.

Hmm, that tip with the oversize bit might work, if there's enough room for the 5mm bit. I'll test that out and see if it will work.

 

[MavDog]

I just did the exact same thing this past weekend.  I was using Windsor One trim which is nice and thick so I figured I would use the Domino to help with the alignment.  I did use the back as the reference side and everything lined up perfect on the front.  The trim comes in 16 foot lengths and 1 piece was enough to do a picture frame style around the windows.  I think that as long as it is from one piece of trim the profile should be the same.  I have seen a slight difference with the profile when I have to use multiple lengths though.  That being said would I do it again that way, I don't think so.  Since I was doing a picture frame style it was a pain to glue and get everything square all at once.  It was nice being able to put up the trim as a single finished unit but it took much longer this way in the end.  I don't feel that the finished look is any better than if I carefully fit and installed one piece at a time like I did previously.

 

[awdriven]

I don't think it's so bad for dealing with the casing later. You just need to pull off the casing in one piece instead of individual sticks. Discovering what's going on with the first one could cause some cursing though Dealing with a cross-nailed miter is more of a pain than a biscuited one. The biscuit joined one will probably survive being pry'ed from the wall. The nailed miters usually crack and you have to try to remove the nails without further damaging the moldings.

Installing pre-assembled casings is so much nicer than having to piece them together in place - especially if the drywall isn't perfectly flush with the jamb, or the jamb itself isn't perfectly planar.

 

[norwegian wood]

i love using my Hoffman dovetail machine for mitered door and window casings. it aligns, pulls together and clamps the two pieces together all at the same time. i cut all my miters perfect 45's. precut every window and door, then start the dovetailing process. then assemble them all, and start popping them on. thing a beauty. perfect miters everywhere that never open up. 

 

[awdriven]

That Hoffmann setup is cool. The machine that combines the dovetail and mitering capabilities doesn't exactly look very portable  [eek]

Hoffmann

 

[jonny round boy]

That Hoffmann setup is cool. The machine that combines the dovetail and mitering capabilities doesn't exactly look very portable  [eek]

Hoffmann

A company I used to work for bought a hoffmann machine about 5 years ago, for joining face frames for cabinets. It does look cool, but really it's not very useable. They went back to dowelling them after a few weeks of trials. The machine in question is still there, on a pallet gathering dust, where it's been for the last 4 1/2 years....

 

[norwegian wood]

i have this one. johnny boy tell them to send it my way i will use it all day long and i have been for over 5 years. It is very usable. For 45 miters it is very easy to use. i can see doweling being better for face frames

 

[fatroman]

Rotate the dominoes 90 degrees, with one mortise on the medium setting, and register off the top edge. 

Might be interesting to toy with that. I hadn't thought of doing it that way, though I'd probably only be able to get one in on each side. But I can see that being faster than the way I was doing it (since that required re-setting the depth as you moved back and forth)

I think that as long as it is from one piece of trim the profile should be the same.  I have seen a slight difference with the profile when I have to use multiple lengths though. 

Yeah, I think that's half the battle here. I mixed the pieces together and would have been better off using one stick per window/door instead of trying to maximize the number of pieces out of a 12' length.

Just got off the phone with Jim a bit ago, so I should have some clam clamps here this week to try out, and report back.

Thanks to all for the ideas.

 

[Sparktrician]

i love using my Hoffman dovetail machine for mitered door and window casings. it aligns, pulls together and clamps the two pieces together all at the same time. i cut all my miters perfect 45's. precut every window and door, then start the dovetailing process. then assemble them all, and start popping them on. thing a beauty. perfect miters everywhere that never open up. 

 

Looks nice, but when I saw "Price: $1,105.00", I had to question its usefulness overall versus the price.  We all know what the Domino tool and a Systainer full of dominoes goes for, and the versatility of the tool.  I don't see the same bang for the buck from the Hoffman tool.  If I did picture frames all day, I might consider it, but not otherwise.  When I used my Domino tool to do some casing last week, the end result was just fine.  Yes, I marked very carefully before doing the joints, and it came out fine, and I could install it piece-by-piece, gluing the joints and using a finish nailer to apply the casing.  No muss; no fuss. 

[smile]

 

[norwegian wood]

at times i am basically a picture framer = ), lol when you have house after house with 20 plus windows and doors to trim out one after the other the Hoffman has paid for itself over and over. because once it is set up you just go and don't have to rely on layout marks. plus the dovetail keys are wedged so they pull the joint together as you drive them in like a clamp putting pressure on the glue joint which is what is needed for a good glue joint. pushing two pieces together doesn't give you the same result as when they are clamped under pressure.

i have a domino and other then testing it out i have never used it, lol dominos are good but they do not draw the joint together and apply pressure across the entire joint. the idea of the dovetail key is it acts as a clamp you don't have to wait to take off after the glue is dry. i looked into the clam clamp but i would of needed to many of them to make it work for me.  of course you have to have enough work for any tool to make it worth it and make your money back. 5 years later and its a free tool for me to make more money with = ). While i have a crew drywalling and finishing i am in my shop making up the trimmed windows and door ways = )  no drywall dust for me this way = )