How to cut and glue Ytong / Durox concrete blocks?

[Nigel]

Well if you can cut them with a normal saw I say go for it.There is a special glue for those blocks but I am not sure if it would stick to tile.Perhaps a decent tile cement would do it.I have done this before with those plaster blocks I mentioned.I just made several small widths to follow the curve and then mosaic on top - there is a special plaster for them.I only mentioned Wedi cos I recently started using it and it's sooo easy and made for it - but costly.

 

[Mettes]

Alex,

The montagekit (MS-polymer glue) will do the job just fine.  Perfect for something like that. 
Very important to know when using Ytong is that regular cement based grout or tile glue will "burn".  The Ytong is to porosive, it "sucks" the water to fast from your grout and it will crumble.  You have to use a special primer or a special glue.

Now if I had to do that kind of a job and cost whas the main concern.  I would go for a strip of white plastic/resin board/acrylic that I would bend and glue, some scraps glued to the tiles and some bricks as dead weight to keep the strip in place until the glue sets.  20min job, €30 material and that's all there is to it.  No tile's, no grout.  To finish a bead of silicone on the edges.

All the best,

Hans

 

[AlexThePalex]

The montagekit (MS-polymer glue) will do the job just fine.  Perfect for something like that. 
Very important to know when using Ytong is that regular cement based grout or tile glue will "burn".  The Ytong is to porosive, it "sucks" the water to fast from your grout and it will crumble.  You have to use a special primer or a special glue.

Yeah, I am aware of the burning effect, I was hoping that maybe making the ytong soaking wet before applying a very diluted priming layer of grout might help? Is a special primer absolutely necessary? I have already looked at it, but with all these darn DIY stores around here finding a suitable primer is a task by itself. It sucks I can't buy at good professional shops.   

Would perhaps a primer you use on plaster board before applying latex paint work? I've got that laying around. It is also meant to stop suction in porous materials.

Now if I had to do that kind of a job and cost whas the main concern.  I would go for a strip of white plastic/resin board/acrylic that I would bend and glue, some scraps glued to the tiles and some bricks as dead weight to keep the strip in place until the glue sets.  20min job, €30 material and that's all there is to it.  No tile's, no grout.  To finish a bead of silicone on the edges.

It doesn't have to be the absolute cheapest way to do it, it must be good looking and lasting also, but just for not too much.

 

[Rob Z]

Alex, what I would likely do in this situation is skim coat the faces of these porous block with a fairly wet mixture of thinset or medium bed mortar, smoothing it out somewhat with the trowel and then allowing it to firm up and lose some moisture while it cured.  If you're in a hurry and need to do multiple steps in the same trip, use a rapid-set mortar (wet) and it will firm up more quickly. That skim coat will seal the porous texture of the concrete block and allow you to set the tile without the problems that would come from working over a porous substrate .  In an effort to keep costs down, you could then use the same rapid-set to bond the tiles.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex, what I would likely do in this situation is skim coat the faces of these porous block with a fairly wet mixture of thinset or medium bed mortar, smoothing it out somewhat with the trowel and then allowing it to firm up and lose some moisture while it cured.  If you're in a hurry and need to do multiple steps in the same trip, use a rapid-set mortar (wet) and it will firm up more quickly. That skim coat will seal the porous texture of the concrete block and allow you to set the tile without the problems that would come from working over a porous substrate .  In an effort to keep costs down, you could then use the same rapid-set to bond the tiles.

Not in a hurry, I'll be doing a lot in the apartment for the next three weeks, so I can take my time.

Had a look at my test pieces today and the results were very positive. Both the thinset piece and the montagekit (glue) piece were secured pretty strong on the floor tiles. It took quite some force to pull them off the floor. These were just small pieces, so if I make the entire quarter circle with 7 cm thick ytong blocks plus a layer of thinset and tiles, I am confident it's going to be very solid.

I also test glued some pieces of ytong together, one pair with thinset and another with montagekit. Both were so strongly connected that I could not pull them apart. So both methods will work.

[attachthumb=1]

Before I applied the thinset I held the blocks under a running tap so they were saturated with water. Today, I could not detect any burning or crumbling, it worked great. The bond was very strong.

I am confident now I know the right way to do this. Also found me some primer so I'll be using that too.

Thanks for all your help, I'll post my progress over time.

 

[Pixel]

The plastic panel around a bath or shower tray are there for a purpose, they are called access panels, designed as such to gain access to the drainage system.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The plastic panel around a bath or shower tray are there for a purpose, they are called access panels, designed as such to gain access to the drainage system.

Not really, their main purpose is to make it look nice and offer a cheap way to finish it all off. It does leave the convenience of access in case maintenance is needed.

But in no way is it a rule you have to have an access panel, many tubs don't have one. And some do, a matter of choice. If a drainage system is installed properly the chance of leakage is minute.

Anyway, I was thinking of making the last block on the right removeable to be used as an access panel. 

 

[Pixel]

The plastic panel around a bath or shower tray are there for a purpose, they are called access panels, designed as such to gain access to the drainage system.

Not really, their main purpose is to make it look nice and offer a cheap way to finish it all off. It does leave the convenience of access in case maintenance is needed.

But in no way is it a rule you have to have an access panel, many tubs don't have one. And some do, a matter of choice. If a drainage system is installed properly the chance of leakage is minute.

Anyway, I was thinking of making the last block on the right removeable to be used as an access panel.

It is no way a rule, you're right, but it is designed to gain access to serviceable parts.

Qualified tradesmen follow a "code of practice" no matter what trade they are in, and in plumbing a plumber never blocks off what is effectively their access for future repairs.

Drain outlets from showers, baths and sinks are, by default, serviceable items. Because of the nature of the things, plastic, resin or fibreglass acts differently to metal when heated and cooled, despite improvements to perishable seals between these products, defects do appear over time so following a code of practice allows access to these parts.

I smiled to myself when I read your response to my first comment because I heard you say, "shit never though of that" and your response of leaving the last block loose also brought up images of you trying to tile a "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles.

John Wayne once said in a film "where have all the cowboys gone".

I think I know the answer.

 

[Nigel]

  It's an interesting viewpoint Pixel and I might agree if I did not know the truth at least in my part of France.These items are routinely blocked in and rarely have any problems.I agree with Alex if properly installed there are generally no problems.I suppose it might be wise to leave access but I have not seen one as yet in France in 15 years.Baths are of course a different story and usually have access.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Qualified tradesmen follow a "code of practice" no matter what trade they are in, and in plumbing a plumber never blocks off what is effectively their access for future repairs.

Well, if that's how they do it, why do I encounter lots and lots of baths and showers without any access to the drainage pipes? I sure can't access it in my own house, and the tub's been installed there for 80 years now without leaking one drop.

I smiled to myself when I read your response to my first comment because I heard you say, "stuff never though of that" and your response of leaving the last block loose also brought up images of you trying to tile a "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles.

John Wayne once said in a film "where have all the cowboys gone".

I think I know the answer.

I don't care about what answers you make up in your mind about cowboys. I don't like you and I don't value your opinion. You have a tendency to troll people on purpose, and to be confrontational without reason, and that's just not how we role here. Here we are used to treat eachother with respect and those who don't don't stay around for long.

Btw, what does "stuff never though of that" and  "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles." exactly mean? Your english is breaking up, Pixy.

 

[NL-mikkla]

Job should be done by now, how did it go??

 

[AlexThePalex]

Job should be done by now, how did it go??

I'm not entirely finished yet, had to do work on the entire apartment also. But I did do the cutting and glueing of the blocks and it all went very fine. The MultiMaster with a round blade was a great help shaping the blocks. I put the tiles on yesterday and have to see today how it worked out. I used some small mosaic tiles, and dang, those are crap to work with. Was the first time I worked with such small tiles (1,2 x 1,2 cm) and it's not easy to get an entire sheet on straight.

 

[Pixel]

Qualified tradesmen follow a "code of practice" no matter what trade they are in, and in plumbing a plumber never blocks off what is effectively their access for future repairs.

Well, if that's how they do it, why do I encounter lots and lots of baths and showers without any access to the drainage pipes? I sure can't access it in my own house, and the tub's been installed there for 80 years now without leaking one drop.

I smiled to myself when I read your response to my first comment because I heard you say, "stuff never though of that" and your response of leaving the last block loose also brought up images of you trying to tile a "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles.

John Wayne once said in a film "where have all the cowboys gone".

I think I know the answer.

I don't care about what answers you make up in your mind about cowboys. I don't like you and I don't value your opinion. You have a tendency to troll people on purpose, and to be confrontational without reason, and that's just not how we role here. Here we are used to treat eachother with respect and those who don't don't stay around for long.

Btw, what does "stuff never though of that" and  "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles." exactly mean? Your english is breaking up, Pixy.

Its an access panel, end of, period, full stop, and only a cowboy would block off an access panel. Fact.

Stuff actually replaced another word beginning with Sh and ending in It, I assume the blog automatically replaces words some may find offensive, so the phrase Stuff, never thought of that means you only realised it was an access panel when I pointed out to you that it was an access panel.

floating block big enough for access with floating tiles means that after you realised that the drain needs to be accessed for servicing you said you were going to leave the last block loose, this would need to be big enough to get your hand in and hold the outlet, possibly with a pair of grips, so the block would need to be quite large, this would not be fixed so it would be floating (sorry to use terms that are only familiar with tradesmen but I don't know the terms used by DIY people)

I am not trolling you as you have always claimed in not true, I just made a comment originally the the panel is there for access and your reply was that of someone who does not know the standard codes of practice we tradesmen follow.

As to my English breaking up, I am English using English building terms.

You will have to go crying to the FOG administrators as you did last time if you thing I am trolling you but if any of them are tradesmen they will see that I was actually trying to point out originally something you didn't know.

Bon Bricolage

 

[Pixel]

Qualified tradesmen follow a "code of practice" no matter what trade they are in, and in plumbing a plumber never blocks off what is effectively their access for future repairs.

Well, if that's how they do it, why do I encounter lots and lots of baths and showers without any access to the drainage pipes? I sure can't access it in my own house, and the tub's been installed there for 80 years now without leaking one drop.

I smiled to myself when I read your response to my first comment because I heard you say, "stuff never though of that" and your response of leaving the last block loose also brought up images of you trying to tile a "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles.

John Wayne once said in a film "where have all the cowboys gone".

I think I know the answer.

I don't care about what answers you make up in your mind about cowboys. I don't like you and I don't value your opinion. You have a tendency to troll people on purpose, and to be confrontational without reason, and that's just not how we role here. Here we are used to treat eachother with respect and those who don't don't stay around for long.

Btw, what does "stuff never though of that" and  "floating block big enough for access with mosaic tiles." exactly mean? Your english is breaking up, Pixy.

Its an access panel, end of, period, full stop, and only a cowboy would block off an access panel. Fact.

Stuff actually replaced another word beginning with Sh and ending in It, I assume the blog automatically replaces words some may find offensive, so the phrase Stuff, never thought of that means you only realised it was an access panel when I pointed out to you that it was an access panel.

floating block big enough for access with floating tiles means that after you realised that the drain needs to be accessed for servicing you said you were going to leave the last block loose, this would need to be big enough to get your hand in and hold the outlet, possibly with a pair of grips, so the block would need to be quite large, this would not be fixed so it would be floating (sorry to use terms that are only familiar with tradesmen but I don't know the terms used by DIY people)

I am not trolling you as you have always claimed in not true, I just made a comment originally the the panel is there for access and your reply was that of someone who does not know the standard codes of practice we tradesmen follow.

As to my English breaking up, I am English using English building terms.

You will have to go crying to the FOG administrators as you did last time if you thing I am trolling you but if any of them are tradesmen they will see that I was actually trying to point out originally something you didn't know.

Bon Bricolage

Yo bro you are wrong.  Already told you above you were in the wrong. Have another read!

Oh I am a tradesman by the way. BOOM!
[big grin]

I started to read your reply but it has nothing to do with the subject, all of my showers are flush with no front panel but the outlet is serviced from above, as per the designers choice.

Shower outlets are serviceable parts, accessible from which ever way the designer/fitter choses, in the case of the shower tray in question, from the front, hence the panel is an access panel and blocking it in is not an option.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Its an access panel, end of, period, full stop, and only a cowboy would block off an access panel. Fact.

It is just a skirt to hide the underside of the tray. Doing it this way is simply the cheapest way. If they would have known of an even cheaper way they would have chosen that path. 

that means you only realised it was an access panel when I pointed out to you that it was an access panel.

I thought about this job for a couple of weeks before even posting it here. You honestly believe it never came up in my mind it might be beneficial to keep access to the drain pipe underneath it? You give yourself too much credit, buddy. This is not rocket science, there are like 3 things sticking out underneath the tray, and comming from a university background, you'd think I learned to count to 3 at some point in my life.

floating block big enough for access with floating tiles means that after you realised that the drain needs to be accessed for servicing you said you were going to leave the last block loose, this would need to be big enough to get your hand in and hold the outlet, possibly with a pair of grips, so the block would need to be quite large, this would not be fixed so it would be floating (sorry to use terms that are only familiar with tradesmen but I don't know the terms used by DIY people)

These Ytong block are quite large, 60 cm long. You'd think that would be enough space to throw a whole party under there.

I am not trolling you as you have always claimed in not true, I just made a comment originally the the panel is there for access and your reply was that of someone who does not know the standard codes of practice we tradesmen follow.

Funny thing is, this approach was suggested to me by the professional plumber to whom I first went to find a replacement skirt. So he confirmed the idea I already had in mind for backup if it turned out to be impossible to find a replacement. When I asked him if it would be wise to keep access to the drain he told me it never hurts but if the drain is made solid and doesn't leak it's not necessary by definition. It is just some plastic pipes glue welded together, no water trap, and the only thing that needs to be serviced is the rubber ring that seals to the tub, and this can be done from above.

You will have to go crying to the FOG administrators as you did last time if you thing I am trolling you but if any of them are tradesmen they will see that I was actually trying to point out originally something you didn't know.

I never went crying to the adminstrators. One administrator actually came to me telling me to stay quiet and not feed the troll and that he already had his eye on you. I myself am or was part of some forums where it actually is considered sport to troll and go after trolls, so I am quite capable of dealing with such situations myself. However, such things are not appreciated here and dealt with quickly and proactively by the administrators. I admit I had to adjust a bit to these rules when the Forum was taken over by Festool USA. Maybe you should too.

 

[peter halle]

Now that the air has been cleared lets all stop the troll no troll personal stuff.  It is indeed non conducive to the spirit of the forum.  From the administrative side, we do try to read as many posts as we can and yes sometimes our advice will be to just ignore comments made.  That advice can even vary between personalities of each of the three people who administer.  With the fact that we have many different members posting from many different regions of the world, and sometimes it seems also outer space, it can be difficult to determine if a post that might come across as being harsh or worse, or might be the result of not understanding local language characteristics, attempted humor, or even just typing in a non-native language.

If this thread continues down the personal route the thread will be locked.  That would be a shame because the product being talked about is not common in all parts of the world and there is an educational benefit.

Peter

 

[AlexThePalex]

Job's done, posted a follow up at the link below.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/shower-tray-with-ytong-blocks-job%27s-finished-pic-heavy/msg375758/#msg375758