How to finish? Built-in bookcases.

[BigfootBuilder]

Man have I been pouring over as much information as possible and the issue is that there's too much.

So, I'm building 3 walls of bookshelves/cabinets all built in, and I have almost all of my wood cut, dadoed, shelf pin holed (all like 1,400 of them), sanded, etc., and I'm thinking I'll be finishing all pieces before assembling. Seems like the smartest way to go, I learned the hard way that I never want to spray into a 5 sided box again. Client wants everything white (dammit) and I'm trying to figure out the best application/product for this situation. I have the Rockler HVLP unit, as well as a Titan airless sprayer and I'm wondering first, if either of these two units are correct for my situation.

I'd like to not buy any more painting equipment, so I'm hoping one of those two things can do the task. I do have a good compressor if there's a better bet to use for this like a conversion gun or something of the sort.

Next, the product. Paint? I don't wanna do oil. It seems like there are some good Sherwin Willams products out there for this? I'm also not that into doing one of the lacquers because I don't like to breathe that stuff. Am I asking too much? I'm looking for a nice durable finish, with low VOC, that doesn't require too much sanding between coats. Also, recommendations for complimentary primers?

I know this is a big subject and partially comes down to preferences, but, what would your advice be?

Thank you!

 

[tjbnwi]

My preferences-

SW KA+, it's a waterborne lacquer. The Surfacer is a great primer. Comes in clear and white that is tintable.

SW Wall & Wood primer is an excellent primer.

SW ProMar

BM Advance

Tom

 

[BigfootBuilder]

Thank you, I looked up the KA+ and people definitely seem to like it. Maybe I'll see if I can get a quart to practice with first and see if it works with my HVLP gun.

Any(one have any) other thought's recommendations re: the spraying setup?

My preferences-

SW KA+, it's a waterborne lacquer. The Surfacer is a great primer. Comes in clear and white that is tintable.

SW Wall & Wood primer is an excellent primer.

SW ProMar

BM Advance

Tom

 

[BPCFinishing]

Bigfoot, I spray Kem Aqua plus from a compressor and standard hvlp.  I believe my clear gun has a 1.7 nozzle and my pigmented I shoot from a 2.0.  I use a California air compressor because they are super quiet . The 2.0 is also good for the primer/surfacer. 

 

[jeh]

When building entertainment centers, bookshelves, etc (built-in or freestanding) and paint is going to be the end product I always pre-prime everything before starting any work. This makes any sanding from the grain raising very easy to do and I can follow up with spot priming wherever needed. Of course once you have done some cutting and have the pieces ready for assembly you will need to do some spot priming, but no matter how much it will be infinitely easier before assembly.

In some cases I will apply one top coat before any cutting and assembly are done. My purpose for doing so is to avoid sanding inside of the finished products and to only have to apply the final coat. I always apply a prime and two topcoats to painted projects. Final coat is almost always sprayed. Others are usually rolled. Make sure you use a high quality paint and the best roller you can buy

I rarely use any type of stain on a project that will not be painted. It's clear only and always sprayed.

 

[BigfootBuilder]

Bigfoot, I spray Kem Aqua plus from a compressor and standard hvlp.  I believe my clear gun has a 1.7 nozzle and my pigmented I shoot from a 2.0.  I use a California air compressor because they are super quiet . The 2.0 is also good for the primer/surfacer.

Thank you, I'm looking at adding a pressure pot to the HVLP setup because I have gallons to spray, and would rather not keep filling quarts, but I'm also reading that pressure pots can be a pain in the ass...

 

[BPCFinishing]

I've not used pressure pots, an air assisted unit may be a good option but I've heard the kem Aqua is hard on spray equipment which is why I'm spraying out of a 60 dollar gun.  Still gives me a nice finish and I'm not harming a 1000+ dollar unit.  Maybe someone here that does a lot of volume can chime in on their setup.

 

[BigfootBuilder]

What gun are you using? I may be going shopping today. Think I'll see how it shoots out of my Rockler unit, and any input from you and anyone else regarding their setups would be greatly appreciated, thank you!!!

P.S. My copressor produces 6.5 CFM @ 90PSI if that's helpful. Or I have the rockler unit...

I've not used pressure pots, an air assisted unit may be a good option but I've heard the kem Aqua is hard on spray equipment which is why I'm spraying out of a 60 dollar gun.  Still gives me a nice finish and I'm not harming a 1000+ dollar unit.  Maybe someone here that does a lot of volume can chime in on their setup.

 

[tjbnwi]

Bigfoot, I spray Kem Aqua plus from a compressor and standard hvlp.  I believe my clear gun has a 1.7 nozzle and my pigmented I shoot from a 2.0.  I use a California air compressor because they are super quiet . The 2.0 is also good for the primer/surfacer.

Thank you, I'm looking at adding a pressure pot to the HVLP setup because I have gallons to spray, and would rather not keep filling quarts, but I'm also reading that pressure pots can be a pain in the ...

Pressure pots are the easiest and most efficient way to use a turbine or compressor gun. I'm looking at supplementing my 2.5 gallon with a 2 quart. Clean up is a breeze.

Get a PPS or DKups system for the times you need just a quart or two.

Clear I spray with a 1.0, pigmented I spray with a 1.3 or 1.5.

Micro foaming can be an issue with the pigmented. It is more prevalent with a AAA.

On average I spray 100 gallons a year of KA+. This month alone I'll stay 18-20 gallons for one job.

I may get a AAA for the shop, love the portability of my Q4 so it will always be part of my spray arsenal.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

How to spray 99 doors a day.


Tom

 

[BigfootBuilder]

Hah, yeah I watched that 99 doors video when I looked up the KA+. Just came back from SW, they didn't have the KA+, but they do a bit north of here at a commercial joint. The guy at the local SW recommended SW ProBlock for the primer, SW ProClassic for the color, and then a clear coat of KA+ over the top.

He said he wasn't sure if they could pigment the KA+ but I'm gonna call right now. Is that what you were referring to [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] ? Pigmenting the KA+?

[member=652]JimH2[/member] thank you, I debated about pre-priming everything first but decided not too as I had rips, rabbets, dadoes, and shelf pin holes to do and figured it was too much handling to do pre-prime.

[member=31479]BPCFinishing[/member] thanks for the input! All of the KA+ recommendations will probably push me that way...

 

[Klemm]

has anyone had any experience with SATA paint guns and associated equipment?
In my view SATA is the "FESTOOL" of paint guns. while I have used SATA only with solvent based products I can tell you it is a pleasure to work with. SATA will be an exhibitor at the IWF Woodworking show in Atlanta - testimony of their commitment to the furniture and wood working industries. SATA equipment is designed for waterborne products.

another approach: I have seen consistently impressive results from my commercial residential painter using GRACO airless equipment. Quality that passes  muster in any very high end project. One advantage of that approach is the absence of the big compressor requirement. Having used airless in industrial applications only, I can say it involves a learning curve. But impressive consistent results are possible. Don't be confused by results with lesser equipment.

Sherwin Williams: seek out a "S-W Architectural" Store - different people and expertise better suited to helping you than the consumer paint-and-wallpaper store down the road. S-W has been paying their dues in woodfinishing for years. I put S-W sanding sealer on before doing anything. I am thinking of trying to go at least past primer before putting in LR-32 Shelf-pin holes.
Hans

 

[BigfootBuilder]

Now I'm looking at the EMTECH EM6500. That stuff seems very highly acclaimed. It's also cheaper even shipped when compared with the KA+, but the benefit of the KA+ is that I can get it a half hour away.

Anyone have experience with that stuff? Tested out the ProClassic just now and am actually impressed with it. Seemed to splatter on pretty heavy with the 1.8mm tip, so I switched to a .9 and that seemed to work better, I also thinned just a hair more. Thinking of trying some floetrol in there too. Might experiment a little more with the ProClassic, but am ultimately leaning towards the KA+ or EM6500...

 

[tjbnwi]

Hah, yeah I watched that 99 doors video when I looked up the KA+. Just came back from SW, they didn't have the KA+, but they do a bit north of here at a commercial joint. The guy at the local SW recommended SW ProBlock for the primer, SW ProClassic for the color, and then a clear coat of KA+ over the top.

He said he wasn't sure if they could pigment the KA+ but I'm gonna call right now. Is that what you were referring to [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] ? Pigmenting the KA+?

[member=652]JimH2[/member] thank you, I debated about pre-priming everything first but decided not too as I had rips, rabbets, dadoes, and shelf pin holes to do and figured it was too much handling to do pre-prime.

[member=31479]BPCFinishing[/member] thanks for the input! All of the KA+ recommendations will probably push me that way...

You were at a homeowners store, they have no clue about KA+.

The KA+ can be tinted.

The KA+ White is tinted with ColorCast Ecotoner.

The KA+ Clear is tinted with up to 4 ounces of BAC colorant.

My rep and the store I purchase from allows me to do my own tints and matches ofd they're busy.

SW Wall and Wood primer, PC color coat, top coat with KA+. Pictured is this recipe.

Tom

 

[rnt80]

When it comes to any questions/issues with KA+ I trust Tom's opinion and advice.  On more than one occasion he has helped me out with my questions for the product and he has always been spot on. 
I've used both Target's 6500 and KA+.  While both of the products spray well and dust up nice I think the KA+ provides a much smoother finish that is more durable.  If you can get your hands on the surfacer as well then I would go that route. I've used the KA+ over three different primers and found that the KA+ surfacer works the best. 
Check with SW on pricing, I think they're pretty flexible.  I initially paid approximately $60 per gallon.  It got up to $90 a gallon which pushed me to start looking for other options.  The next time I went in I talked to them about buying more product on a consistent basis and I'm now paying $45/gallon.

 

[BigfootBuilder]

Thank you [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] and [member=3752]rnt80[/member], I'm thinking I will go the SW route, and these are exactly the answers I've been looking for.

The guy at the store (yes, the regular little store, not architectural/commercial place) said to go with the "ProBlock" primer, but I'm going over birch ply and poplar for the shelves, so I don't think a "blocking" primer is really necessary?

I'm thinking I'll go that route that you guys are suggesting.

One more thing though, is it more ideal to do the W&W primer, and then two top coats of tinted KA+, or primer, PC, then clear KA+?

Thanks again!

 

[rnt80]

I've been very impressed with the hardness and durability of fully cured tinted KA+.  I've never top coated it with a clear coat. 

 

[BPCFinishing]

Hey Tom, what kind of colors have you done using tint in the Kem Aqua+ clear?  Basically I'm asking if you can make it black

 

[tjbnwi]

Hey Tom, what kind of colors have you done using tint in the Kem Aqua+ clear?  Basically I'm asking if you can make it black

I've done black with KA+ clear. Very hard to get it right. You need to have the Surfacer tinted with CCE black, best you'll get is dark gray, after sanding the Surfacer use diluted Trans Tint black dye on the outside corners. Spray the top coats.

Black paint clear coated may be better, haven't tried it yet.

The table is KA+ clear BRE tinted black. The turntable plinth is diluted Trans Tint black dye top coated with KA+ clear BRE.

 

[BPCFinishing]

I tried packaged black pro mar 400 on a project a few months ago but it was too much work, I had to dilute it so much to spray in the hvlp that it ended up acting more like a stain anyways.  Seems like doing a black stain with the black tinted clear coat could be a good option!  Thanks!