How to Get More People Involved?

[Roland Chung]

Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers.  Just to be clear, this is one of my favorite forums.  I too enjoy the tone and experience found in this forum.  I also enjoy the international participation and I personally participate in forums originating in other countries.  I can't wait to get my hands on a Kapex - one of those tools that I wouldn't have known to wait for (like the Domino) had it not been for the members of this forum.

My point was not to bait anyone, but to address the question posed by Matthew: "How to get more people involved?"  Matt appears to be perfectly capable of doing that all by himself, just by posing an innocent (albeit controversial) question.

Members and regular visitors to this forum would not consider the messages here to be evidence of "elitism".  It's when we get hammered in some other forums just for bringing up the subject of Festools that I think others sometimes have that perception of us.  I have personally seen hostile exchanges commence in other forums, when a Festool enthusiast offers up a "better" way to do things.  I believe that there are large numbers of people who will never buy into the idea that our $430 router does a 10x better job of rounding over an edge than their $43 router.  I think that it doesn't help matters when the Festool enthusiast defends his position by offering that the superior dust collection is worth the extra $387. 

Look at these excerpts from Matt's original message. 

The top 20 posters account for about 2,900 (50%) of total posts.

1,212 members (95%) have never posted

Do the other 95% have nothing to offer?  Are they afraid that they might get their toes stepped on? Are they afraid that they will be hammered for dissent?

I offered an idea that might generate more involvement - feel free to disagree.  I know that Matthew enjoys the free flow of ideas.  I just think that it couldn't hurt to have one or two more categories.  Right now, I only visit about 2 of the 17 categories that I just counted.  It's not like the extra traffic is going to get in the way of our discussion on large MFT ideas - you'll be able to avoid the general woodworking or Len's Rookie Corner category the same way that I avoid the Sales Related Discussions.  If you have too many categories, you have my permission to remove any of the categories that I don't use. The extra categories might help some people discover Festools when they are doing browser searches for general woodworking subjects, because there would be general woodworking discussions happening here.  Festools were around for a long time before I discovered them - let's make it easier to find out about this better way of working with wood.

 

[Eli]

I waited a while so the crown of off-topic king couldn't be pinned on me. But I don't have anything off-topic to say because I waited so long.

I absolutely love this forum, to the exclusion of all other online pursuits. Well, almost all. Anyway, first thing in the morning and last thing at night, all day long, whatever time it is everywhere else, I like to check out what everybody's up to here. One of the main reasons I've felt so successful at shifting countries is because a big part of my socializing is done here, in Festooland. It seems to me like the people who come here have a good reason for it and not only enjoy it, but enjoy themselves and add to it. I've got pretty limited experience with online forums, there's only one other I visit and increasingly less than this one.

Again thank you Matthew for doing a spectacular job, and to everyone else for adding the community to the great enjoyment I get from the tools.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled NAINA taunting.......

What kind of p*rn you guys want first, Kapex, belt sander, laminate trimmer? Have you seen the weed-wacker? How 'bout the juicemaker?

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers....

No need to apologize.  Your questions were fine and I'm pretty sure everyone understands you were honestly trying to understand something and propose new ideas with the intent to improve our forum.  That's always welcome here! 

My point was not to bait anyone, but to address the question posed by Matthew: "How to get more people involved?"  Matt appears to be perfectly capable of doing that all by himself, just by posing an innocent (albeit controversial) question.

When I formed the Yahoo group, I had an idea for a forum whose shape and voice was defined by its members.  I had some theories on how to do this, but it was untested.  In the beginning I wasn't at all sure what would happen.  I wasn't even sure anyone would join!  Now, here we are at this point in time, and the experiment has worked very well.  I have come to deeply trust members to help me address major issues, from technical matters all the way to more subtle questions about the very nature of the forum.  I believe what makes the FOG so strong is that it is a member-driven and member-shaped forum.  One of the most central questions is how to get more people to transition from observers to active participants.  It's a difficult issue to address, so I invited members to offer their opinions.  (Over the past few months, actually, I'm happy to report that the number of people becoming active participants has increased.  I believe that in itself creates a beneficial cycle that encourages even more new members to join and contribute.) 

I offered an idea that might generate more involvement - feel free to disagree.  I know that Matthew enjoys the free flow of ideas.  I just think that it couldn't hurt to have one or two more categories.  Right now, I only visit about 2 of the 17 categories that I just counted...

Please don't take disagreement here as a personal criticism.  I try to be very careful about all new categories.  There is this question of balance again -- having the board be as complete as possible, and yet keeping it under control as well.

Back when this forum was being created, a core group of "founders" toyed with several different ways to form the boards.  Several ideas, from various members, were presented and rejected before we got to the arrangement of boards you see today.  In the approximately eight months following this foundation stage, the structure has gone through several more iterations.  We try things, and if they don't work we change it.  My point here is, your proposal needs to fit into that kind of process.  The nature of a democratic forum like this is that it does change -- it must change -- but in order for those changes to occur an idea must appeal to a good number of people.

You are making a proposal for an idea.  People should listen to your ideas, and either agree or disagree respectfully.  In the end, I believe the process we have in place for discussing forum changes works well.

Please feel free to continue making the case for your ideas.  All are welcome!

If you are interested, take a look at the "foundation" discussion we had to get an idea of the process we worked out:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=5.0

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Dan Clark]

...
And now, back to our regularly scheduled NAINA taunting.......

What kind of p*rn you guys want first, Kapex, belt sander, laminate trimmer? Have you seen the weed-wacker? How 'bout the juicemaker?

I'll take a little Kapex with a dash of laminate trimmer on top, please.  Hold the belt sander!    8)

Dan.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

The question and goal of how to get more people to participate is certainly a good one.  I don't have any answers to add to those already given by others, but I note that in most groups of people there are a relatively few who act as leaders, a greater number who actively participate in response to ideas tossed out by those leaders and the vast majority who remain silent most of the time for various reasons.  Long ago I learned that the best way to rapidly gain information of interest to me is to ask questions, and that it is worth the risk of asking even if others with more experience may think negatively of people who ask such basic questions.  I have also learned that members of this forum are very willing to help one another, and to repeated answer repeatedly asked questions (including many that are arguably well off topic), and that Matthew does a great job of reorganizing this forum as it evolves.  I used to visit other sites, but rarely do so any more.

My advice to anyone "lurking" out there who has been reluctant to post to FOG is to not be afraid.  No one will bite you, and you will likely learn a lot and make some new friends from around the world. 

Dave R.

 

[permont]

Let me put my 2 "crowns" worth of input here:
The very nice and generous ways of answering my questions as a newcomer, as well as other people new to the forum seeing this, will in itself slowly but surely generate new posters.
A kind of perpetum mobile or chain reaction. 

Myself I am in the IT industry and want a hobby doing something with my hands that I can actually use, smell and see instead of just producing emails, documents etc.

As time goes I hope to eventually transform from an "asker" to a "answerer".

/per

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Permont,

If you read the chains that relate to software, posting photos and such, you'll know you aren't the only IT person participating in FOG.  Although I am not in IT, my regular work requires me to spend most of my working time at a PC and also leaves me wanting to do something with my hands that produces a physical and easily understand utility.

My personal plan is to keep on asking, keep on experimenting, keep on learning, and to have some fun and the satisfaction of knowing I made something useful, and ultimately, to help some others get answers to some of their questions.

Note there is another person on this forum whose name is Per (as in Swenson).  You can learn a lot from him!!

Dave R.

 

[Qwas]

I'm a newbie that has been reluctant to post. First being shy and a novice woodworker, I wanted to gather ideas from your existing users before doing any posting. Many great ideas on this board and kudos to all of you on here. You've given me some ideas that I have already started to use.

I'm getting ready to post my modifications to the MFT in the next week or so. I don't think any of ideas are "award winning" ideas but maybe my ideas will give other newbies (and old timers) a new train of thought. Who knows, maybe Festool will use them and send weekly royalty checks to me.

I like somebody else's idea of a rookie area. It can be less intimidating to the newcomer and encourage more postings. I would like a give a warning to the old timers wanting to post here - No one liners - it's hard to understand if you are being sarcastic. And give feedback but do so in a friendly way.

Thanks for the forum. I have really enjoyed it. Where else can my post be answered by a CEO, THE best customer service department, dealers, professionals, experienced users, and novices? Many thanks.

 

[Dave Rudy]

I'm a newbie that has been reluctant to post. First being shy and a novice woodworker, I wanted to gather ideas from your existing users before doing any posting. Many great ideas on this board and kudos to all of you on here. You've given me some ideas that I have already started to use.

I'm getting ready to post my modifications to the MFT in the next week or so. I don't think any of ideas are "award winning" ideas but maybe my ideas will give other newbies (and old timers) a new train of thought. Who knows, maybe Festool will use them and send weekly royalty checks to me.

Warmest welcome, Qwas.  With or without a newbie corner, please, PLEASE post your ideas for discussion.  A fertile imagination and great ideas are not only the product of the most experienced.  Sometimes a new person brings a fresh perspective an his ideas are always welcome here.

I like somebody else's idea of a rookie area. It can be less intimidating to the newcomer and encourage more postings. I would like a give a warning to the old timers wanting to post here - No one liners - it's hard to understand if you are being sarcastic. And give feedback but do so in a friendly way.

My experience is that there is no friendly or more collegial forum on the internet (I sure haven't seen one).  I dont recall ever seeing a sincere question mocked by this group.  The one liners can be really good, though -- there is some genuinely funny stuff on here.  I think it is safe to assume that any one-liner you see will be laughing with someone rather than at them.

I look forward to seeing some of your ideas in "print".

Dave

 

[Bob Childress]

Welcome Qwas. Don't be reluctant to post. I'm a relative newbie myself, but hanging around here considerably flattens the learning curve.

One reason we seem so collegial is that we share a passion for Festo, which is a fairly narrowly-defined topic. Therefore, no arguments over this saw vs that saw, but only over which Festo saw will do the job best. Same with other tools.

Another reason is that some of us have been "persecuted" ( ;D ) on other forums for our Festool devotion. This is our safe harbour.  We know we can ask a question here without fear that a group of otherwise sane persons will suddenly decide that people who buy Festools are idiots or worse.

I don't post here as much as I will in future because I'm still learning, learning, learning. But I'm slowly re-organising my entire approach to projects based around the Festo system. As the folks around here know, the darn thing works. 

 

[Steveo48]

Everyone,
All online forums have a similar issue: a relatively small number of members do the majority of the posting.  .....

Thats pretty much life Matthew.  It's generally a small group of people that get heavily involved what ever the activity is, be it church, work and so on.

Some lead, some need to be led.

Steve

 

[Ned]

Some lead, some need to be led.

That's not quite fair.  Some of us simply have a low threshold before we speak up.

Those with a higher threshold do not necessarily "need to be led".

Ned

 

[Eli]

And some people have a life. ;D