How would you charge? If you being charged, how would you EXPECT to be charged?

[peter halle]

To everyone who has posted - thank you.

To everyone who has looked at this post and hesitated in posting, please do.

No comments or suggestions are wrong.  The help and advice you offer to me will also be available others.  That is priceless.

I am reluctant in this thread to post much more information about the situation because I do post under my real name, and because this forum is searchable, there could be ramifications for me.  My exposure on the Internet has grown considerably since I became involved with moderation here.

Hopefully early next week I will have put together something to give others an glimpse of what I have been working on since Monday to address some of my short comings.

Feel free to offer comments and advice!

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

For small fix-it work you must implement a trip charge.

Tell them the trip charge covers driving there and 15 minutes.

Give them the hourly scale for that kind of work.

If they don't want to pay a trip charge upon arrival, politely tell them to pound sand.

That kind of crap will get people to think you are a door mat.

Been there done that, won't do it again. 

 

[ericbuggeln]

Peter, I would stay away from a set trip charge or 15 min for pickup.  I dont now if you are near DC or not but not exactly consistent travel times there.  Also, you never know how your supplier will be running that day.  With the slow economy there are a lot less employees at my main supplier and while the lines are shorter, there are less guys to fetch you stuff.  It could take anywhere from 10 - 45 minutes.  You dont deserve to pay for any of these circumstances and if your customer wants the job done, then they will have to pony up for you to do it.  Youre worth it, right???

Repair work is a specific, unique situation which cannot be accurately bid on unless you are looking to set yourself up for disaster.  I just recently had a client call me to replace some clapboards and drip edge.  Looked pretty straight forward, until we removed it and found that half the header behind it was completely gone.  Not only not to code and dangerous, but unable to nail siding to.  If I had stated that I could "do the job" for X amount, then who is responsible for the jacking up and replacement of a header, ME, only at the hourly rate that was stated, not including materials or any added expenses.  I tell people they can pull up a beach chair and a fruity drink and watch me work if they feel that I might slack off and waste there money.  No one has taken me up on this, but when they see the Festools all set up they know I mean business, Eric

 

[sw1211]

As soon as you give something away people come to expect it.  If you don't charge this time and she sends you on similar type of work in the future and you then charge her, she'll come back with, "why are you charging me for this, you didn't last time."

 

[Daviddubya]

I would charge the "real amount", i.e. actual time and materials, with no apology or explanation.  You told the client that is what you would do, and you are simply doing what you said you would do.  If she pays it, everyone is happy.  If the client objects, discuss it, reminding the client she wanted it now and that you had told her about the travel charges.  Be firm and fair.

 

[cje]

Don't apologize for your bill. Your time isn't expensive, it's valuable.
Once you start to apologize, you show your weakness, and an alert customer will start to negotiate. The French say 'qui s'excuse, s'accuse'. No translation needed, I guess.

I once completed a troubleshooting gig in 2 hours. I quoted and charged a daily rate, because in my trade I can't go elsewhere, when I visit the client the day is gone. They complained that I was expensive. I knew that before I was called in another guy spent 20 days at half my rate, with no result. So what is expensive, I responded? Someone that let your damage grow, and costs ten times what I costed you and didn't deliver, or my job? Actually, I think it's cheap, I added. I also suggested to ask more questions, you pay for the day, you get the day. So they send some employees to me, and I trained them how to find errors, so they would be more effective next time.

If you keep idle time in your schedule for emergencies, the one who calls for that time has to pay for it. I use to charge 200% for responding within 24 hours.

Good luck!

CJ'60

 

[butzla]

I made a writing desk for an acquaintance from work.  Because I knew her I was totally upfront on the invoice breakdown.  I made the mistake of itemizing 1.5 hrs for delivery.  (it was 20 miles away).  She, being eccentric to say the least, flew off the handle saying she would pick it up herself. Desk was well over 100 lbs. and quite large (39" x 60" maple).  After we had a "discussion" she agreed to pay it and after she saw what was entailed in delivery, she felt better but there is still some tension between us.  But had I just added 1.5 hrs to the labor without detail we would have avoided the hassle altogether.  Use caution. 

 

[JEP]

Peter,
In your original post you described how you explained to the customer how to save her some money by coming back another day to avoid a special trip right then to get supplies.  She wanted it done now.  In my mind that means saving money is not the priority, getting it done (or done right) ranks higher in priority than the price.  Without saying so, she told you that schedule was the most important priority, not the price.  I've found many times that my customers put the higher priority on quality, good communication, or schedule and price is lower on the list. 

The only thing that suprises me is that you didn't collect payment when you finished that day.  The receipts were in your pocket because you just purchased the materials.  I assume you know your hourly rate.  A few minutes and you have the price for the customer.  Send her a receipt later, rather than an invoice.  I can't think of a similar time for myself where I didn't go ahead and collect payment.  Most people are ready to pay in my experience.

Charge what you need to.  The whole point of a business is to make money, now and in the future.  Profit is not evil.  Without profit, businesses can't survive. 

Joe

 

[Kevin D.]

Reasons to charge full price:

- She never asked how much it would cost.

- She may be looking to stick the bill in her husbands face for failure to deal with this himself.

- You are not a charity.

Reasons not to charge full price:

- You failed in giving her a proper price when asked and full details of possible additional costs and how your pricing works.

- They're down on their luck, and you've got a heart of gold and want to help them.

- You intentionally misled them or you know you handled it incorrectly and should have been relaying what things would cost.

- You are too afraid and probably should be working for someone else.

- You are a charity and should be handing out charitable donation receipts when people pay you.

Good luck with your decision Peter.  One of the hardest things to do when billing for services is to charge what we're worth, but it's the best thing for all when we do.

 

[waynelang2001]

Hi Peter

Ive only had my own business for 3 years now and ive had to learn the hard way that undercharging is a real business killer. I did this for the first 4 months basically because i was a bit scared that a higher price would chase away the client. But after taking my chances a few times i realized that " some " people are willing to pay the high price for a custom, high end job. I say charge what you have to charge to keep food on the table ( and help build the business ). If she isnt happy with the price offer a small discount maybe. You did say she wasnt really a great client in terms of leads so i dont think upsetting her should really be to high on your worry list.

 

[ajones]

Well Peter I think its time we all learnt the outcome. did you invoice already?? been paid ?? spent it??

 

[peter halle]

Well Peter I think its time we all learnt the outcome. did you invoice already?? been paid ?? spent it??

Well, based on the advice given by all the wonderful posters, I did invoice.  I invoiced at full price.  Granted, she is still out of town, so I haven't seen a check yet, but I am hopeful.  I did put a separate line item on the invoice for "travel to acquire parts necessary for a safe installation".

I want to thank all for the advice.  Not only for me, but also for those who view and would be embarrassed to ask such a question.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

Peter

 

[ward]

I once was told that for every 10% discount i extended i would have to DOUBLE my volume, to equal the un-discounted gross profit. I don't think this included the cost of insurance or overhead exposure for the additional work either. . . .

I'm not a math whizz but i did figure it out to be correct. It's often troubling to bid a project and have the client assume this is a basis point for negotiation.  I always tell people I start high and go down as the tell me I'm out of their budget or want less expensive materials.