How would you go about gluing up a 3200mm long and 700mm wide box?

[RC]

I'm trying to figure out how should I tackle the clamping needs for a box that I'm going to build.

The problem is that the finished size of the box will be 3.2m x 0.7m x 0.6m (l x w x h) and therefore the only clamps that I have found that would be extendable to long enough lenghts would be either

- the Bessey K-body clamps with the extension bits and smack a 2m + 1.5m K-bodies together to get the 3.5m clamp
- pipe clamps/english style 'plank' pipe clamps (I don't really have a place to store 3m+ lengths of pipes so that option is sort of out of the question at the get-go since buying metal pipe to just trash it the next day sounds awfully expensive clamping.)
- try to use transportation belts and corner shims and try to avoid scratches from the ratchet mechanism

I don't have any of the above clamping solutions nor any pipes, etc. so what ever is the suggested solution will have to be acquired from ground up.

What is the best practices on how to tackle this sort of one-off super large clamping needs in a cost efficient way?

Also are there any reasonably priced web-shops in Europe where to acquire Bessey clamps that accept credit card payments and ship abroad? (I know of http://www.handwerkzeuge-online.de/ that has great prices but they require bank transfer prepayment which is unacceptable to me.)

 

[Kev]

Man you really NEED a Tardis !

My first thought would be to assemble a clamping bed from timber that you could reuse at a latter point - but I'm guessing this has already passed your mind and been discounted as non viable.

Confronted with "what to buy?" - I would personally go Bessey clamping, I have several and would stay with the same system for future flexibility. There are others that are good (a couple - but the brands escape me at the moment).

I'm also not going to be very much use to you on where you should buy ... but it is worth haggling on price when you're buying multiples (at least in Oz), I got 30% off when I purchased 10 at once.

 

[Kev]

Maybe these guys on EBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BESSEY-Profi-Korpuszwinge-KR250-2K-KR30-2K-2500-x-95-bis-300-x-95-mm-Typ-KR-/220972213554?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Handwerkzeug&var=&hash=item7916bad10e

 

[VictorL]

I do have pipe clamps, and I don't have pipes longer than 1800mm (6'). Also I do have bunch of pipe couplings.  I just joint  two 1800mm (6')  pipes and get 3600mm clamp.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Reiska

I had a task like this over a year ago - sorry no photos but...

I have loads of Besseys but none long enough. In the end I glued and screwed some 120mm pieces of 4x2 onto the face (flush at each end) of a long length of 4x2. I made 2 of these for my job which was not a box but a frame.

I then had the pieces of 4x2 on top of my frame (that was being glued) so that the 120mm pieces were in contact with the frame. I then used a pair of 600mm Besseys (one at each end of the 4x2) and tightened up. I did not need to tighten really tight because of the fantastic accuracy and my superior craftmanship I was just lucky! The clamps are not quite in line and that is why I used 600mm ones rather than 300mm ones.

Peter

 

[Michael Kellough]

If the box is designed such that the long side enclose the small end then you don't need very long clamps.

The ideal joint would be the lock miter but it would be very difficult to cut the corresponding profile on the ends of very long boards.

An alternative joint would be a version of tongue and groove which would only need short clamps to close.

But, you probably are using an ordinary miter joint or you wouldn't be concerned about clamps...

If your parts fit well you don't need the high pressure of the usual clamps. In that case you could use very long boards with stops just beyond the ends of the box and then close the gaps with wedges pounded in to achieve just enough pressure for the job.

Another alternative is band clamps. Bessey makes a very nice set which allows two or more clamps to be joinned for very long work.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Reiska

I quite often make gates up to and over 2m in size and I have found a solution that suits me which may be of use to you

These Irwin clamp heads are relatively inexpensive and if you have a local steel fabricators get a few sections of 1" x 2" box section to the length you need and ask them to drill out holes at specified spacing and there you have large clamps.

These are supposed to be used on timber sections but over these lengths the timber will flex but steel box section does not

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irwin-Record-TM130-M130-Clamp-Heads-/230706716414?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item35b7311efe

 

[Alan m]

i would agree with guy. those type of clamps jumped into my mind when i read your OP . i like the box iron idea but that would be expensive (but really good). for a one off like this i would use a 3x2  and put those type of heads on them. thast way you can use the 3x2 for something else later

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I also use the clamp heads, as mentioned above.

I,ve found that 2" X 1" works perfectly well with them when clamping up to over 3.6mtrs.

I would think 6 sets of clamps would be adequate for the size of box you mentioned.

Tim.

 

[RC]

Sorry that I didn't think of this earlier, but here is a sketchup visualization of the planned box:

[attachthumb=#]

Every long horizontal board is dominoed with 10x50 sipo's to the end pieces that are identical to each other. At the very end is a shoe rack/table that could be assembled separately I guess to make the box a bit shorter.

 

[RC]

Another alternative is band clamps. Bessey makes a very nice set which allows two or more clamps to be joinned for very long work.

Oh, you can combine these - totally missed that when I looked at them at a local store earlier today? I dismissed them as too short as the circumference of the box is 770cm and even the large ones are 'only' 7m long, but if you can combine two of these then it would be easily long enough. Four of these only cost about 100€ which is only a little bit more than a single K-body Revo Variable 2m clamp...  [eek]

Do you get enough pressure from this sort of a band clamp to pull the domino joints together or would I still need at least a pair of Bessey's K-bodies combined to pull the joints together before holding the box in place with these bands?

 

[Michael Kellough]

Yes, the ends of the band are joined by the steel loop. You can slip the band off the loop and re-join to the loop of another clamp. The Bessy band clamps are very versatile. Nylon webbing alone can be very useful. A simple strip of webbing with the ends twisted together like a tourniquet can apply enough pressure to emboss medium density wood.

These clamps aren't strong enough to pulled glued Dominos tight but a hammer and a block of wood will take care of that. I often find the hammer and block speed up assembly even when using powerful clamps. (reduces blisters on my hands too)

 

[live4ever]

Depending how "fine" a project this is, you could use screws to clamp and back them out and plug once dry.

 

[RC]

Thanks Michael!

Live4ever:

Would pocket hole screws on the inside of the box have enough force to pull/keep the joints together? The feet are 2x4 so there is a lot of wood to screw into and even the thin boards are 28mm thick.

Since this is a storage box for the terrace it's not exactly fine furniture I'm building here, but I still want it to look nice and the less visible screws the better. Nobody could care less about what's happening inside the box as long as it doesn't get in the way for example by catching on the bench cushions that are stored in the benches, etc. My first version of this bench/box is nearly ready and it's only screws will be the hinge screws - everything else is dominoed & glued together.

[attachthumb=#]

I'm using these box/benches as practice pieces for my Festools - I have managed to use on the smaller box already my MFT/3, TS55, EHL65, DF500, quick clamps, clamping elements, both rails, rail connectors and OF1400. [big grin] 

 

[RC]

Well, went and ordered two of the Bessy 7m band clamps + 4x 1500mm Vario K-bodies + extension connectors + all the other accessories. And of course the real reason to shop was the box of sipo's that I need to build the thing with 228 tennons... [embarassed]
That should be good enough for the two box parts and I'm hoping that I can squeeze the shoe rack bits in place either with the K-bodies tracking from the top and feet or the side paneling indent. Now wait for DHL to deliver...  [popcorn]
If everything else fails I'll use pocket screws... How hard can it be? [scratch chin] [big grin]

 

[Kev]

I've been watching your outdoor box thinking with interest as I plan to do something similar for a covered area at my place in the not too distant future ... I'm coming to the conclusion that ~1800mm individual boxes will be the best approach for me!

 

[RC]

If you don't have left-over materials lying around like I had you can probably save a bit of money & weight by using a different selection of wood i.e. thinner like 2x2 for legs and maybe do with 20mm thick side boards and use smaller tennons. The construction of my box design is actually quite simple and using the domino making the tennons is trivial and fast. I only wish I'd have two MFT/3's for layout since my deck isn't 100% flat.

I have simplified the lid construction from the first drawings as seen in the picture above and now it's actually manageable weight & still sturdy enough to handle 100kg+ of weight without flexing. Also the box has enough heft in it not to move by itself but it's still light enough that two people can carry it around.

Oh, and remember to reset the height adjustment on your domino when transitioning from thick stock to thin stock if you want the side boards centred  [embarassed]

You might want to look at more elegant looking boxes like Canadian Home Workshop one. Or other designs with the search phrase 'dock box' seems to come up with some interesting and weather proof models.

 

[TomGadwa1]

Like Michael showed a variation on rope clamps will work. Rope is cheap and strong. Make protector pads for the rope to ride on. Loop the rope around what needs to be clamped. Use Michael's tourniquet method for tightening. I had a wise cabinetmaker friend inform me of this old school method.

 

[RC]

I actually picked up the other idea from Michaels post while gluing up the lid for the smaller box [big grin]

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Hi Reiska, as you've already decided on the tactics and ordered stuff this is not adding much but still...  [wink]

I expect you'll find the band clamps alone have little real pressure. In that line of thinking I would choose Michaels rope idea, maybe clamp a couple thick beams on either short ends of the boxes but make them stick out an inch or ten and start pulling those ends to each other. Hope you know what I mean, it should get you plenty pressure at only a couple of bucks.

However, in general and after trial and error I lean toward assembling big project from smaller bits instead of one big glue up. This makes assembly way easier but also the delivery and later if the user would need to get it somewhere else when moving or what not, it would be a lot easier to take apart a bit and move it.

Let us now how it's going ok?