I am done

[Cheese]

Jatoba is one of several woods (including Ipe) that has a very high silica content.  It will dull blades, even carbide tipped blades, much more quickly than most woods. 

Thanks for the heads-up...I didn't know that.  [smile]

It makes sense, now that you've mentioned it, because I did a Jatoba border on a maple floor and never experienced so much burned wood in my life.  [huh]

I just thought it was the density of the wood that was causing all of the problems as it's twice as hard as hard maple.  [tongue]

 

[HarveyWildes]

Jatoba is one of several woods (including Ipe) that has a very high silica content.  It will dull blades, even carbide tipped blades, much more quickly than most woods. 

Thanks for the heads-up...I didn't know that.  [smile]

It makes sense, now that you've mentioned it, because I did a Jatoba border on a maple floor and never experienced so much burned wood in my life.  [huh]

I just thought it was the density of the wood that was causing all of the problems as it's twice as hard as hard maple.  [tongue]

Yeah, the price/hardness combination of Jatoba is pretty impressive for floors.  I have engineered Jatoba flooring and it has performed really well.  As substitutes, Santos Mahogany and Granadillo do pretty well, but they are more expensive and not as readily available.  I used Granadillo for some floor trim and is has held up well.  Goncalo Alves is popular here, but it's another of the high silica woods.

I decided on Massaranduba for my deck rather than Ipe.  Ipe durability is based on chemical factors - high anti-fungal content.  Massaranduba durability is based on the fact that it has a gummy sap that dries in the wood's capillaries as the wood dries, and the dried sap protects the wood fibers from moisture and fungus.  The main problem I've had with it is that it's really hard to power wash it.  The nice thing is that it's so dense that power washing doesn't eat into the wood unless you really crank up the pressure.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I see a lot of posts complaining about the lack of power on the TS55. I don't understand the issue. Its main purpose it to break down sheet goods and has plenty of power to do so. I think there is to much expectations out of this saw. This is not a framing saw, miter saw or a table saw. Sure it can do some of these tasks, but don't expect it to be the same.

You expect a wood saw to cut everything woody you throw at it to cut it to its cutting depth.

Is that really too much too ask?

Wrong. My table saw will rip 3" thick material, even at 5hp its going to be a slow cut. There are plenty of 3hp table saws that would bog down trying to push 3" oak. Anytime you max out a saws capacity you are going to be putting a lot of strain on the motor, blade etc..I have straight line ripped 6/4 walnut with my TS 55 with the 12 tooth blade. Sure it didn't rip it as fast as if I was cutting 1/2" ply, but that was expected.
Sharp and proper blades along with the right feed rate is key to using this saw.

Yeah, nice examples of taking it to the extreme, except that the TS55 saw can bog down on 18 mm plywood already. Softwood. Feed it 18 mm pure hardwood and you have to do a really slow cut. Thicker hardwood than that can easily become impossble because the saw just stops.

My Festool CS70 can cut 70 mm hardwood without problems. Of course you take it slow, but it never, ever stops.

I have a DeWalt 65 mm saw that has so much power it goes through anything, the toughest hardwood with nails, as if they weren't there.

And I had an opportunity to use a Mafel 55 mm saw this summer, god what a joy compared to my TS55. It just never lets you down.

Really, the TS55 leaves a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Svar]

We can discuss cutting techniques and blades ad nauseam here, but when people say TS55 is under powered they mean in relation to competition. The truth is it is the weakest of half a dozen or more 160 mm track saws on the market. Great saw nevertheless.

 

[Cheese]

Goncalo Alves is popular here, but it's another of the high silica woods.

That's what Smith & Wesson used to use for their hand gun grips, however it got too expensive. [sad]

 

[tjbnwi]

I see a lot of posts complaining about the lack of power on the TS55. I don't understand the issue. Its main purpose it to break down sheet goods and has plenty of power to do so. I think there is to much expectations out of this saw. This is not a framing saw, miter saw or a table saw. Sure it can do some of these tasks, but don't expect it to be the same.

You expect a wood saw to cut everything woody you throw at it to cut it to its cutting depth.

Is that really too much too ask?

Wrong. My table saw will rip 3" thick material, even at 5hp its going to be a slow cut. There are plenty of 3hp table saws that would bog down trying to push 3" oak. Anytime you max out a saws capacity you are going to be putting a lot of strain on the motor, blade etc..I have straight line ripped 6/4 walnut with my TS 55 with the 12 tooth blade. Sure it didn't rip it as fast as if I was cutting 1/2" ply, but that was expected.
Sharp and proper blades along with the right feed rate is key to using this saw.

Yeah, nice examples of taking it to the extreme, except that the TS55 saw can bog down on 18 mm plywood already. Softwood. Feed it 18 mm pure hardwood and you have to do a really slow cut. Thicker hardwood than that can easily become impossble because the saw just stops.

My Festool CS70 can cut 70 mm hardwood without problems. Of course you take it slow, but it never, ever stops.

I have a DeWalt 65 mm saw that has so much power it goes through anything, the toughest hardwood with nails, as if they weren't there.

And I had an opportunity to use a Mafel 55 mm saw this summer, god what a joy compared to my TS55. It just never lets you down.

Really, the TS55 leaves a lot of room for improvement.

I have yet to experience any of these issues. If you look at this site I've been told I'm nuts for cutting all the things I cut with it.

Tom

 

[Getmaverick]

I haven't had these issues either. If you are having issues cutting 18mm ply there definitely is a problem somewhere.
Maybe not pulling enough amps, warped blade? Could just be a bad saw. Could also be user error. I'm willing to bet at least 50% of issues on this forum is related to user error.

 

[Cochese]

I can't imagine a normal situation where a TS would have issues cutting through plywood, unless it was somehow constructed of Superman's discarded skin cells.

User error or a bad saw. Not when I can cut through 2" of hard maple in a joining cut.

 

[Holmz]

One can say, that their opinion is that the TS is a nice saw.
The earlier commentary was actually a statement of fact that the TS55 has the lowest power of 1/2 dozen track saws.
Blaming the users skill level is a good example of the "Festool apologist" showing a total denial of any factual evidence.

I thought identity politics was bad... but this is similar as some "identity tool" mental state, where any attack on Festool gear is perceived as an attack on ones person.

At some point the psychology of the situation becomes apparent, as was referenced in the opening post.

:sheep-emoticon:

 

[Cochese]

One can say, that their opinion is that the TS is a nice saw.
The earlier commentary was actually a statement of fact that the TS55 has the lowest power of 1/2 dozen track saws.
Blaming the users skill level is a good example of the "Festool apologist" showing a total denial of any factual evidence.

I thought identity politics was bad... but this is similar as some "identity tool" mental state, where any attack on Festool gear is perceived as an attack on ones person.

At some point the psychology of the situation becomes apparent, as was referenced in the opening post.

:sheep-emoticon:

Factual evidence is that so many operators of the same saw can perform a simple task that it renders the inability to do said task an aberration. It may be underpowered compared to others, but cutting through sheet goods would be a basic function of the tool.

It's not being an apologist to deduce that something is very wrong with a track saw that struggles to perform the basic function of cutting a 19mm or 3/4" sheet of plywood. Something that very few others have been seen complaining about.

 

[Kev]

Factual evidence is that so many operators of the same saw can perform a simple task that it renders the inability to do said task an aberration. It may be underpowered compared to others, but cutting through sheet goods would be a basic function of the tool.

It's not being an apologist to deduce that something is very wrong with a track saw that struggles to perform the basic function of cutting a 19mm or 3/4" sheet of plywood. Something that very few others have been seen complaining about.

I feel this thread is potentially going a fair way off track (pun intended) but I do feel a need to defend the TS55. With the correct (and sharp) blade I have had no issue with the TS55 and the TSC55. Getting a long even and clean cut from gently coaxing the saw along is  the saw's sweet spot. If you want a brutal saw for rough work with a multipurpose blade in it, buy something like a Hitachi/Dewalt/etc and save the blade in your TS55 for it's intended tasks ... over time this WILL be a cost effective approach!

Oz has some of the hardest timbers on the planet and there's a lot I'd never consider waving near the TS55 .. I look at the tool for it's intended purpose and appreciate the job it does in that space.

 

[Cochese]

Factual evidence is that so many operators of the same saw can perform a simple task that it renders the inability to do said task an aberration. It may be underpowered compared to others, but cutting through sheet goods would be a basic function of the tool.

It's not being an apologist to deduce that something is very wrong with a track saw that struggles to perform the basic function of cutting a 19mm or 3/4" sheet of plywood. Something that very few others have been seen complaining about.

I feel this thread is potentially going a fair way off track (pun intended) but I do feel a need to defend the TS55. With the correct (and sharp) blade I have had no issue with the TS55 and the TSC55. Getting a long even and clean cut from gently coaxing the saw along is  the saw's sweet spot. If you want a brutal saw for rough work with a multipurpose blade in it, buy something like a Hitachi/Dewalt/etc and save the blade in your TS55 for it's intended tasks ... over time this WILL be a cost effective approach!

Oz has some of the hardest timbers on the planet and there's a lot I'd never consider waving near the TS55 .. I look at the tool for it's intended purpose and appreciate the job it does in that space.

Indeed. I have a couple other regular circular saws I keep around for more rough work.

 

[Holmz]

...
Oz has some of the hardest timbers on the planet and there's a lot I'd never consider waving near the TS55 .. I look at the tool for it's intended purpose and appreciate the job it does in that space.

I did not think that the woods were that hard/tough, but I defer to your expertise, which seems to be what I have found too.
They are not hard like maple is hard, but more 'tough'... like trying to cut kevlar after cutting fibreglass.
What is it the physical feature that makes these woods so bloody hard to cut?

---

Maybe that is why even with my stunningly good MT55 I have been surprised [eek] when I have stalled the saw in a few cuts?
...Then I just revert to feeding it a bit slower when that happens.

I imagine having only 2/3rds of the power would make this a bit of a more tricky feed-rate dance, or one gets a second saw in the form of a TS75?

So what I basically have is a TS75 level of torque in a '55 sized package.  8)

This is not a QC issue with the TS55 , but more of a design decision...

 

[Kev]

So what I basically have is a TS75 level of torque in a '55 sized package.  8)

This is not a QC issue with the TS55 , but more of a design decision...

I can imagine people getting a bit frustrated when their only option is their TS55 and they reach the limits of it's performance envelope. Too often the blade is the factor (correct blade, sharp, clean ...) and not the saw's power.

Of all the Festool hand held circular saws I could complain about from Festool (I do have most them all) it would be the power of the HKC55 .. it's barely more powerful than a cordless Hitachi that I either gave or threw away a few years ago. Thankfully the HK85 is NOT a disappointment and the 3 FSK rails are excellent.

 

[Holmz]

...
I can imagine people getting a bit frustrated when their only option is their TS55 and they reach the limits of it's performance envelope. Too often the blade is the factor (correct blade, sharp, clean ...) and not the saw's power.
...

Well the Haus_Boss had some mosaics that were bonded onto cement board

They overhung the board on three sides (as per the tiling shop recomendation), and I cut them post facto.
So I set the saw on the lowest RPM and used an Olshun blade to score the tiles (at all different heights) most of the way through with the rail clamped to the mosaiced top.
Then used some nippers to finish them off, and a grinder to put a bevel on for a grout line.

The dust was billowing out as well as sparks and tremendous racket. The saw and blade were protesting like it was being sent through the gates of heck.
I did have the Festool concrete blade but did not want to use it as it was expensive [embarassed]
At least Jarrah does not throw out sparks when it is cut!

The Olshun blade looked a bit ragged, but when I took it off and really checked it, it seemed pretty sharp with my finger test.
I ordered another Olshun blade as well as one of their non-ferris blades.

(It was also the same blade I used to make scoring cuts in 1/4"(6-mm) copper tubing, so I suspect that blade does not like its lot in life.)

I ended up putting that same blade back onto the saw and cut some 4/4 Jarrah afterwards for speaker box edging.  [big grin]
The cuts seemed OK - and I basically did it out of curiosity.

I will change the blade out and put in my small stack of "Blades for sharpening".

So yeah - maybe one would have less frustration using the right blade, but the extra power seemed to be useful.
If the saw made me cups of coffee, then it would be just about perfect. [cool]

The rain is falling today... First time since Jan, and the Footy grand final (Aus Superbowl) happens in an hour or two...
(Plus I woke up this morning)
So it is not a bad day so far.

 

[semenza]

     

    Peoples personal experiences are factual information. And user error does not necessarily mean that a persons skill level is being challenged. Using the wrong blade is an example of simply not realizing what the blade was designed to cut. It doesn't mean the person does not have the needed skill or is stupid. It is simply something they did not know, for whatever reason, that the blade supplied with the saw is designed for sheet goods and cross cuts.

  There have been many, many posts on this forum from people asking about having trouble cutting whatever wood with the TS55. Very , very frequently it is because they are making a rip cut in solid wood with the 48 tooth blade that comes with the saw. So they come to FOG for help and information and to learn. And this forum has traditionally been a great source for that knowledge.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  It needs to be kept in mind that there are a lot of variables and relative terms involved in this discussion...... type of wood, condition of wood, type of blade, sharpness of blade, depth of cut, type of cut, length of cut, bogging down, cutting slow, feed rate, number of cuts in how much time, blowing through the cut, etc, etc. That can all add up to a lot of differing perception.

  In light of all those variables ............

      My TS55 has no trouble cutting any type of 3/4 sheet good I have ever used. If a TS55 is having a problem with that, then there is something wrong with the tool.

Seth

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]Re TS55 - yes the blade choice is significant. For ripping other than sheet goods, I use a panther blade.

[attachimg=1]

In order - laminated Aust Hardwood, 19mm hardwood ply, pine flooring (but here as a door), and edge trimming a Merbu deck.

Not wanting to open another debate re 110 V, but this saw is 240V. But as in Nth America it is 1200 watt. Sure it could have more power but it does what I want from it.

_________

As to am 'I done'! No! But I certainly research the whole available  market before I purchase. This has more to do with Festool Aust, than necessarily the tools they distribute [See 'One for the Aussies'].

As an example of alternatives, I believe Makita, Milwaukee, AEG, Bosch Blue and Metabo all make drills equal or better than the Festool PDC. But I love my Festool CXS and C15 for cabinet type work.

 

[southrider]

Last year I replaced my Dewalt track saw with the 55 to go with a "system". The dewalt made excellent jointer grade cuts in anything I threw at it. It did so effortlessly without thinking.

I was instantly underwhelmed with the 55's power, and the length of time it took to make similar cuts. The dewalt is a larger saw with an excellent soft start motor, but not unwieldy at all. I haven't touched a festool 75, but I assume the dewalt is between the two festools in size and weight.

With that said I do love the system - with an mft setup in my shop I seldom use my Hammer sliding table saw for cross cuts, because of the setup time it takes to reinstall and square the crosscut fence on the Hammer. I can instantly do high quality crosscuts on the mft, as well as infinite cuts at any angle quickly and easily.

I haven't tried other brands 55mm saws, but it sounds like some have more power for their size.

Makita makes excellent motors, as does Dewalt. I generally have been unimpressed with Festool motors. My limited use of a Kapex gave me a poor impression (evrything about it feels flimsy), as does my 55. Even my cxs sounds and feels weak compared to a $139 dewalt 12 volt drill.

Every time my brother in law comes around with my dewalt in his truck I miss it. Because of kapexgate and all the fuss I have begun investigating mafell & metabo as alternatives to festool, and am intrigued.

Doubt that I will throw out the baby with the bathwater, and start all over again. I really love the system. Perhaps I'll sell the festool 55 for a 75, or even a mafell (because it will work with my festool tracks).

I guess I just got spoiled dropping the dewalt on the track and cutting without paying attention. It spoiled me. Now I have to concentrate on my feed rate to get similar quality cuts (EVEN WITH A NEW CORRECT BLADE).

Different brands of motors have differences in their power per size or weight. For whatever reason festool has chosen not to over spec or over engineer theirs to do a job. They seem to focus on features and cleverness instead of robust power output (except for the OF2200 which is a beast).

Let's try to stop blaming the user, and use a little common sense...............

 

[sancho57]

Ya know,

I keeping looking at the classified folder here, I dont see those TS55s being listed, same with the Kapex and other tools.

Im betting there are a lot of people like myself that will like to take them off yer hands if ya price them right

 

[sancho57]

Ya know,
There was a time about 20 years ago when I bought my delta 1.5 hp tilt arbor contractors saw. There were simular discussion about that saw not having enough power. Similar to this TS55 conversations were having.You need a 3hp saw they'd say. It cant rip 6/4 or 8/4 maple theyd say. I didnt have that problem and kept that saw till about 4 years ago when I realized I can do everything with a TS55.

Suggestion to youse. FT also makes a TS75 which has a lot more power and debth of cut.

I keeping looking at the classified folder here, I dont see those TS55s being listed, same with the Kapex and other tools.

Im betting there are a lot of people like myself that will like to take them off yer hands if ya price them right