I need a miter saw

[FestitaMakool]

Don’t forget that the Kapex’s, KS 60, 88 and 120 is targeted mainly as a mobile cutting station for finish carpentry here in their home market.

The special cut capacity of 120mm upright for the KS 120 is what sets it apart from the rest.
The alternative would be near twice the saw size, bulk and a lot more weight from Makita, DeWalt, Metabo, Hikoki, Bosch and so forth.

This is why I chose the KS 120, I need to move it - the others are beasts, with a full height/depth capacity seldom needed for the average user here.
As a stationary setup, that’s another call. I Remember seeing 5 mitre saws at a door/window factory set up in-line at a fairly long mitre station each to a fixed angle. Those where production saws, and not Festool, or any other known brand.

 

[Packard]

For a stationary saw, I would prefer a radial arm saw.  It is more versatile; it can cut dadoes as well as crosscuts.  You can make rip cuts with them too, but that always seemed like a bad idea.

 

[MikeGE]

I have the DWS780, and despite the bad dust collection, it does everything I could want in a SCMS.  Some say the DWS799 is the DWS780 without the shadow light, but after comparing parts in EKAT, these two models have more differences than just the light.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Wrong place to post a question like this. A great majority of contributors seem to be well-heeled hobby woodworkers who’ve never had to do this for a living, and who have zero clue what a real-word mitre saw actually has to do. Ergo - they’ll all say “Go buy a Kapex, it’s the bomb”. Maybe for a guy who does a few cuts a day in a crystal-clean, warm workshop he just spent 6 months building, in between shopping trips with his wife and having a buddies over to admire the box he just spent 3 months making, but for real life (wind, torrential rain, snow, blistering heat, terrible site power, uneven ground, wet material, time pressure from customers, time pressure from other trades etc.) - buy a DeWalt 780. The dust extraction is hopeless, but it gets the job done. And done. And done. And done.

 

[squall_line]

This is not directed at any specific individual, and I apologise if the timing of it comes across that way.

Aside from not knowing how this thread got resurrected from the dead, it would be beneficial to remember that everyone posting on here is another human being somewhere on the face of this planet.  They may be your neighbor, they may not, but it feels like people may be close to crossing a line.

Ultimately, the choice whether to purchase a tool is a personal one and it's amazing to have the number of choices that people have to pick from.  If this weren't a free market economy, we may all be stuck with no options, and the only option available may be great or it may be horrible.  How fortunate we are that we have a number of great choices to pick from for all walks of life and all various needs.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

but for real life (wind, torrential rain, snow,

Wait a minute...

[tongue] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

Thinking out loud and not trying to be combative, but I can see the value of a laser or shadow if one is using their miter saw to cut tenons or dadoes, especially on a slider with a depth stop/trenching feature.  The parallax viewing error from the Zero Clearance could be a hindrance in that technique?

Some years ago Irwin offered a small laser that fastened to the saw blade arbor with the same bolt that secures the blade. The red LED was tilted slightly so that the beam hit the saw blade plate and traveled down to the work piece. It may sound hokey but they really worked quite well. The on & off function was done through internal centrifugal contacts. Battery life was excellent. I installed one on a Milwaukee chop and another on a Milwaukee slider. They were still both working when I sold the saws.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1748015581...MIuJ7x_5Sc8QIVaR-tBh2jwgR3EAQYASABEgIl7fD_BwE

 

[rst]

I have that Irwin laser on my Makita and they do work well.

 

[Mario Turcot]

[member=57948]ChuckM[/member] you are terrible lol

If your thing is to cut construction lumber with more or less accuracy, don't get a Kapex. The Kapex will do the job just fine and as fast as any other saw,  with a touch of accuracy oh did I said it was LIGHT too!

If your thing is to craft guitar, coffee table, end table and all those fancy furniture get a Kapex.

 

[Lbob131]

Was  in  a  local tool  store  and  they  have  on display  just  about  every  scms miter  saw  worth looking  at.
One  thing I noticed  after  sliding  about a  dozen  of  them  in and  out  on  the rods  was  the  grinding  sound  that  some  of  them  made.

Milwaukee's  big  6955-20  was  there  and  it  was  quite  smooth.
The  reason  that  one  captured  my attention  was  because  the  slide  rods  exit  and  enter  the  base. 
Very much  like  my  old  Makita  LS1013.
Its  just  a shame  (imo)  they  don't  fit  the retractable  tape  that returns  the rods  back  to the back stop.
AFAIK  Makita  were  the only  manufacturer  to ever  have  deployed  that  neat  little  trick.
And  I very  much  like it.

Milwaukee  had  a  top rod  model  which  was  rough  on  the slide.
The  smoothest  runners  were  makita,  and festool  and  that big milwaukee beast.

Bosch, Metabo, Dewalt  and  Hikoki  were  on display also.
A  lot of  them  were  rough  on the  slide.
About  15 saws  I tried. 

The  Bosch  glide  seemed  too  smooth.
And  not sure  how  that would  feel  when  cutting.

 

[tallgrass]

I have the Glide in my shop. I was one of the guys who got the Kapex when it had release teething problems. Binding up. I went through a couple. Festool was great and swapped out saw repeatedly and then refunded the price in full. I love the glide. The smoothness that you mention is the function of the design. You can however adjust the "pressure" that you feel while making a cut. I love it. However if you want to move it around, nope , heavy and unwieldy.  Portability is a sticky parameter, only you can decide size and weight parameters that work for you.

 

[Lbob131]

Thanks  Tallgrass.

Does  the  bevel locking  mechanism  give  you  any  trouble?
Go to  6 minutes  in...

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's the ergonomics of the vertical handle and the secondary safety switch that bother me about the Kapex. I tried one a few years ago, the cuts were great, the dust collection was superior, the handle/switches are a no-go for me. I much prefer the Dewalt DW717. It's a 10" SCMS with a horizontal handle and no secondary switch. Unless a guy is cutting 4 x 4 posts on a regular basis, I just don't see the need for a 12" blade? The 10" have far less deflection/wobble and give much cleaner cuts in the same material. Yes, 12" has more capacity, but if you are not using that, what good is it otherwise?
One of the other guys in the same shop has one of the non-sliding Dewalt's and it is horrible. It jerks when it starts and has that little extra tab on the switch too, plus makes a hellish sound when it runs. If the color scheme wasn't the same, you would never believe that the same company makes them.

 

[jcrowe1950]

It's the ergonomics of the vertical handle and the secondary safety switch that bother me about the Kapex. I tried one a few years ago, the cuts were great, the dust collection was superior, the handle/switches are a no-go for me. I much prefer the Dewalt DW717. It's a 10" SCMS with a horizontal handle and no secondary switch. Unless a guy is cutting 4 x 4 posts on a regular basis, I just don't see the need for a 12" blade? The 10" have far less deflection/wobble and give much cleaner cuts in the same material. Yes, 12" has more capacity, but if you are not using that, what good is it otherwise?
One of the other guys in the same shop has one of the non-sliding Dewalt's and it is horrible. It jerks when it starts and has that little extra tab on the switch too, plus makes a hellish sound when it runs. If the color scheme wasn't the same, you would never believe that the same company makes them.

  The handle position on the Kapex was designed that way on purpose. It's much more ergonomically correct than the horizontal handles like on my Bosch. Think of it this way, if you are hand sawing and wish to make accurate cuts, you align your lower arm and hand in the same plane as the saw blade.  Once you think of it this way, it makes sense, at least if you have much of a hand tool background.

    WRT the Bosch, I like mine but when I really want to make accurate cuts for furniture pieces, I sneak into the classroom at work and use the Kapex there. The cut quality is simply superior. IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down....I'd give a lot for something similar on my Bosch. In the end, they are just tools and whatever works for the individual will be what he or she chooses. That said, IME, showing a customer the cool features of a tool like the Kapex is just a lot of fun.

    BTW, Crazy, your point about blade deflection and wobble between a 12" and a 10" saw is spot on. As always, OALA, and YMMV.

Festo Joe
8)
Festool Specialist
Woodcraft of Chattanooga

 

[tallgrass]

The locking mechanism gives me no trouble whatsoever. However mine is an early American model. That model looks like a newer model and that may be the case. I like it. I know there are strong opinions when it comes to this. I honestly wished the Kapex had worked for me. I am a deep coolaid drinker of festool and it was a disappointment. Having said that, the glide has been amazing for the years I have had it. I watched the review, not a bad one. I will say that his negative on the weight is spot on. It does weigh a ton, and I am no shrinking violet.

 

[Packard]

The best accessory I ever added to my older DeWalt 12" chop saw was the Fastcap zero clearance tape. 

It does exactly what it claims to do. 

But additionally it shows precisely where both sides of the saw blade cut. 

I make molding returns on end cuts.  Cutting the 45 degree angle was never an issue.  But making precise length cuts was.  I generally made them a little oversized and then glued them in place and used a sander to get them flush.  But that was an extra step.

Now I simply make a thin line exactly where I need the cut and extend it over the edge.  I than align that with the zero clearance cut.  It is always exactly on the mark.

I suppose a precisely calibrated laser would do the same (as long as you don't change the blade width.  But the zero clearance is cheap, easy to install and always automatically "calibrated".

https://www.amazon.com/FastCap-Zero-Clearance-Tape-Strips/dp/B07C68GTVK

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down...

I remain surprised that a) other miter saw makers do not offer the same kind of non-screw type of hold-down for their new saws, and b) copycats have not flooded the market, given the price Festool is charging for it.

I use it in 90% of my cuts, if not more.

 

[Lbob131]

Was  back in the  tool  store  today.
And  I went  straight to the Bosch  glide.

The  locking  lever  on  the glide  is  quite  difficult  to  move.
And as in  the review  video,  movement is  still  possible  when  its  back in the tightened  mode.
And  I'm no  shrinking  violet  either. I was  almost  expecting  something  to  snap  as  I  pulled  it.

And  like  the reviewer  said,  for  the  amount  of  force  needed,  you  would  expect  the  saw  head  to  be  locked  solid.

 

[Lbob131]

Then  I tried  the Kapex  again.
I agree  with the points  made  by Jcrowe above.

But  also  regarding  the  handle  height  I  noticed  that  the festool display  box  stand  was  lower.
Probably about  700mm high  instead  of  the  800mm  that  my  makita  sits  at. And  I expect  most  saw  stands  sit at.

For  me  personally,  the  feel  is  ergonomically  fine.
Though I am  familiar  with  the  makita  ls1013 which  is  similar.

Regarding  this  wrist  twisting  issue  that  some  people  experience, the  saw  stand  height  is  the  main issue.  I  would  think.
imho. ;D

 

[Lbob131]

On  a  totally  separate note..
My two  work colleagues  have  Makita  ls1013  saws  that  have seen  a lot of  work.

Personally  I  would  chuck  both  of  them  in  the skip.
No  working guards.  I think one  guy  jams  his guard  up  with  a  wedge of  wood.

Anyway  I was  using  one  the  other  day  and as I turned  away  from  the saw,  the  back  of  my hand  came  into  full  contact  with  the  spinning  blade  as  it  wound  down  to  stop.
I was  surprised  when I turned  back  I saw  no red  stuff.