IMPACT DRIVERS AND FESTOOL/PROTOOL

[justinmcf]

as a carpenter i see lots of other carpenters every day of the week. the one thing i have noticed since lithium ion technology has hit the sites, is that every man and his dog has an impact driver. not just carpenters love them, roofers, electricians, plumbers, and glazing installers also use them.
a month ago, i was building steel frame houses, every carpenter and hammer hand had at least one impact driver, sometimes two. (100-120 carpenters)

i am now working for a movie studio, building sets for a movie called the chronicles of narnia. there are between, 70-80 carpenters and joiners, trade assistants/ hammerhands. and again, everyone of these people has an impact driver.
the trend is that it is an essential piece of kit for furniture making, kitchen cabinet work and general building.
i personally think festool/protool have missed the boat.

festools sister company protool do manufacture an impact wrench, but it is not in the same weight category as the makita, dewalt and panasonic drivers. therefor it is useless for general contractors.

so my question to festool is....when will festool or protool have an impact driver on the market?
is it something we can look forward to soon? i would hold off buying another makita, if i knew that festool/protool were about to release an impact driver.

if festool/protool do decide to manufacture impact drivers, i would like to see these improvements made, as the current drills available from festool are great but miss these key features....

1. L.E.D. light incorporated into the design of the drill/driver. (not sold as an add on accessory)

2. a proper belt clip, the makita clip is great, the hitachi clip is useless and the protool clip is rubbish, i am seriously considering cutting it off!

3. the weight would have to be in the same category as the makita and panasonic impact drivers.

i think festool/protool have overlooked the importance of the current belt clip design. for me it is crucial. i hang my impact driver off my nail belt/pouch all day every day. it is as important as my hammer holder which also hangs off my nail pouch. maybe in a workshop this is not important but on construction sites, i need both hands available to climb scaffold, or climb ladders.

anyway, thats the end of my rant, i just wanted to bring this subject up, as i see no one else had yet. i am interested to hear what other improvements people can think of for a new impact driver model.

regards, justin.

 

[HappyCamper]

I've been wondering that myself.  I have the C12 1.3 Ah set with sell here for $646.  I also have  the Makita 14.4 impact driver and drill set.  (And a few others, can one ever have too many drills or routers?)  I saw the later clearing out at Home Depot a while ago for around $200.  The Mikitas are my go to drills.  Everyone who has ever touched the impact driver has immediately got one.  These are one of the best things ever!  I can't imagine how I got along without it.  One of the best things about them is they are compact and light weight, which was my attraction to the C12.  The C12 is a nice drill, but expensive especially since it mostly stays in its systainer.  I would hate to think what Festool would charge for an impact driver up here in Canada and doubt they could make enough innovation and unique system compatibility that would justify the cost.

 

[woodguy7]

I would also love to see a festool impact driver as i love them.  I am a bit scared of what the price might be though.
Just a question on the tips though, I have a makita 14.4v impact driver & it is great, but i go through a lit of the 25mm pz2 bits.  I use a magnetic holder with the 25mm tips & if driving screws into anything hard the tip will just go in bits.  Now i have tried all different materials like diamond, gold, weira, etc etc but they all break.  I spoke to a makita rep & he told me i should not use a magnetic holder as there is "play" between the holder & bit when put under load. This does make sense & he said i should just use a longer solid bit like 100mm. Two problems with this, no magnet & they still break, all be it not as quickly.

Just wondered if any of you guys have had similar problems & if so did you find any solutions.

Cheers, woodguy.

 

[skinee]

woodguy did you know screwfix.com have wera bits specifically designed for impact drivers,i have bought 100mm ones(i think that was the length) but 25mm bits are available,check out cat.no. 20305

 

[woodguy7]

No, did not realise that.  Have not used screw fix in a while as they tend to be expensive compared to my supplier, but i will give them a try.
Thanks for that, woodguy.

 

[justinmcf]

hi woodguy7, i do a fair bit of screwing myself, so to speak!

and i never have that much trouble. i also use 25mm bits and usually break 2 every week. for me that is normal. and i always pre-drill for hardwood.

i think festool/protool could grab a fair share of the market if they offered the impact driver not only as a kit but also as a skin. a lot of people who know the festool brand already own the festool/protool drills. therefor a skin would compliment their cordless kit perfectly.

the key to this would be price. i would be willing to pay only slightly more than what i pay for a makita impact driver skin. there is not much to an impact driver, so price would be critical for me.

currently hilti impact drivers are overpriced and over rated, they have a sensor in the trigger which is more of a hindrance than a help.
i certainly hope festool dont go down the same track. i have been doing contract work lately and i was very close to throwing my business partners hilti impact driver in the bin. it was useless. lucky we had a couple of makitas to save the day.
i think hilti have tried to re-invent the wheel and failed miserably!

as always, i am keen to hear of other peoples experiences with regards to hilti or other impact drivers.

regards, justin.

 

[woodguy7]

Surprised at the hilti, they are generally regarded to be the dogs danglly bits, so to speak.  I love my makita as it is so small, light & has that all important l.e.d light. Thought it was a gimmic when i first got the drill, but it is the best addition to any tool.  Festool realy messed up by not putting them in their new drills & i hope they realise this if they do put out an impact driver.

Woodguy

 

[wnagle]

Festool did come out with an add on light for their drills.  It attaches near the chuck and you can also use it on a headband.  I looked at them when I visited Festool in Lebanon, Indiana.  They are very bright...much much brighter than the Makita and more versatile.  Here's a link to check them out.

http://www.tool-home.com/products/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/980_999/products_id/17109

 

[Brice Burrell]

Okay Justin I have to ask, what's a skin? Is that the tool without the batteries?

I guess I assumed Protool did make an impact driver. If I were to guess it will be Protool coming out with an impact and that's not good news for us in the States. Unless they start importing Protool to the US but I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

I agree with you about the light and a Makita style belt clip.

 

[woodguy7]

Hi wnagle

Yea, i did see that add on light but i don't think i will bother getting one.  It looks quite bulky but the bigest drawback is that it is either on or off, ie-not activated by the trigger.
Don't get me wrong, i am a huge festool fan but i think they messed up by not incorporating them into the new range.  I have the c12 & plan to get a t15 but i think i will hold out to see if they come up with a revised edition. One can always hope  :-\

Woodguy

 

[peter halle]

At the training class in Lebanon we learned that if the Festool light is kept on continuously it would last over 5 days on a battery ( that's what I remember - someone else chime in if I'm remembering wrong please).  Yes, Rick actually turned it on and carried it around for that length of time.  Thanks Rick for your hard work -  ;D ;D.  As Wayne posted it is significantly brighter than those lights on other manufacturer's tools.  It was the result of requests from users like us that caused it's introduction.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Impact drivers are so loud, I can't imagine what it sounds like with 100 people using them.

 

[erikfsn]

I never used my impact after the first few novelty tries. The noise more than offsets any benefit over a drill/driver for me.

 

[justinmcf]

yes brice. a skin is just the bare tool without the batteries.

i really would'nt class the impact drivers as a noisy loud tool.
i wear earmuffs 100 percent of the time. i cant go near a power tool without them. i did damage to my eardrums, (i was'nt wearing earmuffs) in my mid twenties when i was young and thought i was bullet proof!
but i never have to wear earmuffs when using the impact drivers.
i agree it is hard to have a conversation when someone is using it beside me, but i work in construction, for me that is normal.

festool definitely missed the boat with regards to the L.E.D. light on their cordless drill range.
i also thought this was a gimmick/joke when i first used the makita impact drivers. now i would be lost without it. i would never buy an impact driver without the L.E.D.
maybe festool thought it was a gimmick too. 

wayne, thanks for the link. i have seen the light that can be attached to the festool drill and i like it. it looks very functional, but unless it is trigger activated, i would never buy it.

regards, justin.

 

[skinee]

consider the milwalkee C12 impact driver,its very light but packs a punch plus thanks to lithium ion batteries it drives a good number of screws and recharge is only 30 minutes,added to all that it has i built in l.e.d light,its a superb tool.

 

[Mark]

I'd love to read an article on construction practices in Europe vs. the US and how it affects tool design. I hypothesize that Festool is aimed at more interior finish work and thus the need for dust collection, low dB tools which would make an impact driver too loud for Festool applications. Just guessing here but I suspect that the EU's health regulations on noise and dust are tighter than the US, or are they? I'm a DIY'er but love to learn the history of "why" and "how" things are designed. I own a Hilti 14.4 Impact Driver and Hammer drill combo and they are excellent tools. Yes, they LED light is really a feature that Festool needs to address and I kind of winced when I saw the headlamp/clip on light for the drivers. While it "works" it lacks the usual design elegance of Festool. Maybe Festool can make an impact hammer that is quieter than other impact hammers? This would be a true break through though not sure "how". I also wonder if the use to SPAX and Posi-drive bits affect the need for an impact driver as they tend to cam out less than Robertson or Philips heads. The fastener is also a part of the solution as well... maybe McFeely's can chime in here. Rambling on but I'd love to hear from European craftspeople about why they don't have an impact driver in their quiver.

 

[justinmcf]

hi mark, i agree that festool products are aimed at the interior finish work. but here in australia, i could almost guarantee you that every kitchen manufacturer and installer has an impact driver in their kit.

for festool to turn their nose up at this slice of the market would be financial suicide.

i am puzzled why they have'nt cashed in, just like all the other manufacturers have?

regards, justin.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I hypothesize that Festool is aimed at more interior finish work and thus the need for dust collection, low dB tools which would make an impact driver too loud for Festool applications.

I guess you haven't heard their Rotex and their belt sanders then. There's nothing 'low dB' about them.

Rambling on but I'd love to hear from European craftspeople about why they don't have an impact driver in their quiver.

I don't know where you get that impression. Of course they have impact drivers in their quiver. They are just as abundant here as they are anywhere else. It's just that Festool doesn't have one. Remember Hilti is European too.

 

[Daniel_n]

Rambling on but I'd love to hear from European craftspeople about why they don't have an impact driver in their quiver.

I don't know where you get that impression. Of course they have impact drivers in their quiver. They are just as abundant here as they are anywhere else. It's just that Festool doesn't have one. Remember Hilti is European too.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Greg_R]

Panasonic and Makita both have impact drivers with brushless motors.  I'm not sure how Festool would improve on these models?  I use Wiha bits from chadstoolbox.com and have not had any problems with bit breaking or rounding-off.  I really like the 'textured' phillips and posi-drive options for the times when I can't find an appropriate square drive screw.  They really grip the fastener well (important for driving with power tools).