Imperial vs Metric in My Situation

[Cheese]

it is probably easier to converse with the /4 when in public, and then work in metric in the silent privacy of ones bastion they call a shop, shed, or man-cave.

Easier to converse and more socially benefitting than sitting in a private enclosure awfullizing about the advantages/disadvantages about metric vs imperial. Just pick one or both and move forward...life doesn't sit still.

 

[Cheese]

You mentioned the 1970's as the starting point for the failed switch to the metric system; well it has been over 40 years now and we are no where near the point of establishing the standard with anyone (outside of the scientific and engineering fields) . 

Whoops, now we need to take one more step backwards...I've worked in the engineering field for over 40 years, and in that period of time, I never worked in metric units...I sometimes had to convert imperial to metric to support our European customers, however imperial dimensions were the standard and were always accepted by our European customers. As far as I know, they still are the accepted norm today. As far as I'm concerned...imperial measurement is the white elephant in the room, everyone hates it yet everyone also supports it.

 

[Holmz]

...

Here is a link to the actual history of the attempt to covert the United States to the metric system.  It is rather long, so I doubt most people will read most of it, but certainly there is plenty of blame to pass around, the Education Department is certainly included. 
http://www.gao.gov/assets/160/154089.pdf

The answer, which to me seems so obvious, is to teach the metric system to children from the start...

Interesting paper.
It seems like we got common core, and the new maths, plus increased testing.
The teachers are not exactly sitting idle, so it would require a structure of education that would need to be able to accommodate it.

It is as problematic as learning English if one only needs to push button 2 for Spanish, and their peers speak Spanish.

The parallels are pretty normal...

 

[Stephen B]

For the history buffs here, some UTube and other links promoting / discussing the Metric system when Australia converted to metric in 1974 and decimal currency in 1966. Enjoy the quaintness! [smile]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Australiahttps://milebehind.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/an-australians-take-on-metric-system-adoption/

And for those in the US who wonder -

 

[GhostFist]

Dividing 1 by 16 is not easy to do in your head.  The ease of the decimal system is  dividing by 10 or 100 or 1000, just shift 1 2 or 3 decimal places.

The only times you need to convert to decimal is if you're doing trig or Pythagorean functions. I doubt you're doing that in your head

 

[ear3]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] "Awfullizing "  That's an amazing word.  I'm gonna add this to my vocabulary...

it is probably easier to converse with the /4 when in public, and then work in metric in the silent privacy of ones bastion they call a shop, shed, or man-cave.

Easier to converse and more socially benefitting than sitting in a private enclosure awfullizing about the advantages/disadvantages about metric vs imperial. Just pick one or both and move forward...life doesn't sit still.

 

[ear3]

It really helps as well to have some digital calipers, which come standard with fractional, decimal and metric units.  There's a myriad of cheap options available:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=digital+calipers

Dividing 1 by 16 is not easy to do in your head.  The ease of the decimal system is  dividing by 10 or 100 or 1000, just shift 1 2 or 3 decimal places.

The only times you need to convert to decimal is if you're doing trig or Pythagorean functions. I doubt you're doing that in your head

 

[Cheese]

Here is a link to the actual history of the attempt to covert the United States to the metric system.  It is rather long, so I doubt most people will read most of it, but certainly there is plenty of blame to pass around, the Education Department is certainly included. 

Wow...thanks for posting, a very interesting read. The GAO seems to hammer on the Department of Education, but there is more than enough blame to go around on this one.

The Department of Commerce states that the report lacks a substantive review of the causes and remedies while the GAO believes that the report is accurate.
The Secretary of Agriculture waived metric requirements on their programs.
The Federal Highway Admin has concerns about the cost of highway signs.
The Department of the Interior found that 72 of 74 oil and gas companies and trade associations are opposed to conversion.
The National Weather Service, converts its metric data into nonmetric units because of network concerns about public resistance.
The DOD & NASA request complete waivers from metrication in cases involving entire ships or satellites.
The General Services Administration recommended that a complete reassessment of the viability of the statutory requirement be conducted.
The GAO does not believe that such a reassessment is appropriate at this time.

And the list goes on...this rather sounds like the Social Security debate which is still being discussed 40 years later.  [eek]

 

[ear3]

Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but it has taken an interesting historical turn, so...when you say, [member=44099]Cheese[/member] that it's like the Social Security debate 40 years ago, do you mean the debate that led to the appointment and then report (which served as the basis for the statutory fixes made in 1983) by the Greenspan Commission:
https://www.ssa.gov/history/reports/gspan.html

-though apparently there's a case to be made that the commission ended up just being a conduit for a deal reached by Pat Moynihan and Bob Dole, which actually sounds credible since Greenspan is a well-known Social Security hater:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...eenspan-commission-didnt-save-social-security

Here is a link to the actual history of the attempt to covert the United States to the metric system.  It is rather long, so I doubt most people will read most of it, but certainly there is plenty of blame to pass around, the Education Department is certainly included. 

Wow...thanks for posting, a very interesting read. The GAO seems to hammer on the Department of Education, but there is more than enough blame to go around on this one.

The Department of Commerce states that the report lacks a substantive review of the causes and remedies while the GAO believes that the report is accurate.
The Secretary of Agriculture waived metric requirements on their programs.
The Federal Highway Admin has concerns about the cost of highway signs.
The Department of the Interior found that 72 of 74 oil and gas companies and trade associations are opposed to conversion.
The National Weather Service, converts its metric data into nonmetric units because of network concerns about public resistance.
The DOD & NASA request complete waivers from metrication in cases involving entire ships or satellites.
The General Services Administration recommended that a complete reassessment of the viability of the statutory requirement be conducted.
The GAO does not believe that such a reassessment is appropriate at this time.

And the list goes on...this rather sounds like the Social Security debate which is still being discussed 40 years later.  [eek]

 

[peter halle]

[member=61142]Patrick Cox[/member], I hope you don't mind the diversions in this thread.  Personally I try to use the metric system when I am in my shop creating something from scratch.  When you start using more and more Festools and their accessories - many of which have a scale in metric on them - then it might make more sense.

When I am outside the shop in people's homes I rarely use metric.

Peter

 

[Holmz]

It is hardly a diversion... It is the cause of the question...

 

[McNally Family]

[member=61142]Patrick Cox[/member], I hope you don't mind the diversions in this thread.  Personally I try to use the metric system when I am in my shop creating something from scratch.  When you start using more and more Festools and their accessories - many of which have a scale in metric on them - then it might make more sense.

When I am outside the shop in people's homes I rarely use metric.

Peter

Which supports my point that, had we started with the children back in the mid 70's, and not the adults, you would only be using metric when you were in people's homes today.

 

[peter halle]

I was a kid in the 1970's and I was exposed to the metric system.  I lived in a state that actually did have street signs with metric information on them.

Peter

 

[McNally Family]

I was a kid in the 1970's and I was exposed to the metric system.  I lived in a state that actually did have street signs with metric information on them.

Peter

But here we are 40 years later with most kids not being exposed to the metric system, and most States not having signs with metric information on them.  Kids today only know what a 2 Litre (litre (International spelling) or liter (American spelling), looks like (we can't even spell the word the same as the rest of the world). 

This is not the kid's fault, the adults made these decisions, adults who were all taught the old math.  We should have started with the kid's back in the 1970's, on a massive scale and not depended on adults in all the various government departments.  If we had, the adults making education related  decisions today would be fluent in Metric, as would be their children.

 

[McNally Family]

As an example of how I am trying to introduce my Son to the Metric system, here is a link for my idea for his birthday present next month; his first nice Combination Square:
http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-C434...rue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I am calling Starrett customer service first thing Monday morning to see if they don't have a less expensive version, with the same Metric/Imperial scale.  I need to order it soon because I want to have his initials and birthdate engraved on the ruler.  I am hoping that in 40 years, when he looks at the tool, he will thank me for starting him on the road to Metric fluency.

 

[GhostFist]

Let's clear something up. I use metric for liquids , temperature and long distance(km). I solo prefer a point of beer though. Feet and inches for construction.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I still think and mentally design in Imperial even 10 13 years after buying a ATF 55 saw. But as soon as I start the CAD program I convert to metric.

If not for Festool I'd probably continue with Imperial but I've found that working with millimeters (never bother with CM) is a good compromise between accuracy and convenience. 1mm is not as fine as 1/32" but most tape measures drop the 1/32" increments after a foot so you have to interpolate if you're working to 1/32" precision. You can just as easily interpolate a half mm and achieve even higher precision.

 

[polarsea1]

I have several squares and rules that have both metric and imperial markings, several tapes marked with metric. Most of the time I use imperial except with 32mm system hardware.

I keep a calculator handy as well as digital calipers that can switch back and forth. Just knowing that and inch equals 25.4mm helps me as I can convert easily.

 

[rst]

I'm old enough that I had to use a slide rule (same kind that took us to the moon ) in high school math and science.  I went to work right out of school and have been building things ever since.  After buying into the Festool systems, all the measuring equipment I now buy is metric.  I do a lot of "creative engineering" and it is so much easier doing layouts.  I have a conversion app on my cell that i use to make quick crossovers.  I still use imperial for construction as that is the rule here is the US, but metric is definitely easier.

 

[GhostFist]

Maybe I just don't understand people's difficulty in using imperial for construction. What exactly do people find hard with it? It's much easier to read PDF the tape