In the shop what is the REAL difference between regular and Anti-static Hoses

[Warrior]

I have switched to my 16' non anti-static hose for everything because I just got tired of switching and carrying 2 hoses to the job. I made a little adapter for the tools with small ports. The extra length is very handy for working around large pieces and I dont have to reposition the vac nearly as much. The DC with the 36 hose is much improved over using the 27mm. I have only been shocked with the small shocks a couple of times when routing those many dadoes in the door panels. I didn't mind at all. I mean these were little tiny and hardly felt at all. I get a nasty shock every time I get out of my minivan when I go to close the door and if the shocks were like that I would have taken the hose back.

I think for economic and durability reasons I will stick with the gray hoses. Those green hoses seem to kink and abbraid very fast. After a year my green hose is oval in cross section. I know I have made most of these points before but I just wanted to share again. ;D

UPDATE

OK, so now I don't know what to do. I am starting to get more shocks from the NON AS hose I am using and it is getting a little annoying. I like the durabilty and price of the NON AS hose but the static is getting old.

I am thinking about the AS hose, but the price and durability issues bother me. I do not want to spend that kind of money on a consumable. Any thoughts?

Eiji

 

[colinw]

Excuse my late entry to this discussion... but if the hose has an a/s coating to conduct static, it has to have a path to ground if there is no connection on the vac side, and the vac is double insulated anyhow. How does the static build up discharge? also another point to remember is : An electrical charge will always take the path of least resistance so if you are a better conductor than you ground  beware. Sorry this is slightly  off topic but I think relevant 

Colin

PS Nick I too used to get shocked a lot but I did not have a/s hosing, this stopped when I started using cushion flooring for my back i guess its a good insulator too (i don't know if you remember this conversation  in a different thread) 

 

[Michael Kellough]

I have switched to my 16' non anti-static hose for everything because I just got tired of switching and carrying 2 hoses to the job. I made a little adapter for the tools with small ports. The extra length is very handy for working around large pieces and I dont have to reposition the vac nearly as much. The DC with the 36 hose is much improved over using the 27mm. I have only been shocked with the small shocks a couple of times when routing those many dadoes in the door panels. I didn't mind at all. I mean these were little tiny and hardly felt at all. I get a nasty shock every time I get out of my minivan when I go to close the door and if the shocks were like that I would have taken the hose back.

I think for economic and durability reasons I will stick with the gray hoses. Those green hoses seem to kink and abbraid very fast. After a year my green hose is oval in cross section. I know I have made most of these points before but I just wanted to share again. ;D

UPDATE

OK, so now I don't know what to do. I am starting to get more shocks from the NON AS hose I am using and it is getting a little annoying. I like the durabilty and price of the NON AS hose but the static is getting old.

I am thinking about the AS hose, but the price and durability issues bother me. I do not want to spend that kind of money on a consumable. Any thoughts?

Eiji

Eiji, I think I noticed in your project photos that you keep a power cable strapped to your vac hose. It wouldn't be hard to a an extra wire as a shunt to bridge the non-AS hose to conduct the static to the vac.

For wire I'd suggest half of a length of zip cord or some old 23g communications wire but nearly anything would work. Use what is available. You could rip the ends of an unused Ethernet cable and twist the ends together for example.

The more difficult part is attaching the ends of the wire to the nozzle and vac port. To maintain to ability to rotate to hose within the fittings an avoid kinking you'll want to run the bare wire into a tight hole drilled into the hose just behind each end fitting.

Oops, I've put the cart before the horse here. For this to work you have to replace the non-AS hose ends with AS ends. Trying to completely bypass and entire non-AS hose fittings included would be too difficult unless you dedicate a hose to a tool. I take that back, if you use the zip cord and don't solder the ends you could spread the soft thin copper wires out flat and fold them around the end of the hose ends and when connected to the tool the wire will be making contact with both the tool and hose end. Another benefit is that the hose end doesn't need to be AS in this application. It will be more difficult to get this to work on the vac end of the hose because of the tighter fit and harder plastic. Maybe file a small notch to allow for the wire?

 

[Brice Burrell]

Eiji, have you had a AS hose fail or wear out? Like you I'm hard on my hose, the one on my CT mini. It's still hanging in there and I'm going to use it unit is dead. I'm keeping it mind these things are a business expense, if /when it needs to be replaced the business pays for it.

 

[danrush]

I've been using my AS hose(s) in the field for a couple of years now.  Granted, I'm usually on a fairly clean and protected site, but the hoses seem to hold up well.  After my little experiment noted above, I won't go back to non AS.

Just a thought, Dan

 

[Warrior]

Michael,
It seems like alot of effort to save a few bucks.

Dan and Brice,

After 1 year in the field my 27mm AS hose still works but is very abbraided, kinks very easily, and is oval in cross section. After worrying about the hose getting abbraided I put some braided sleeve over the hose and cord. My 27mm non AS hose which has seen just as much action still looks new.  I wanted to get a 36mm AS hose for sawing and routing but the price was hard to handle. Especially since most of my profit seems to be going to Festool these days anyway. I didn't notice any shocks using the 27mm non AS hose with my Fein Vac. Now that I am using the 36mm NAS hose with the CT Vac I am getting shocks. I just didn't what to spend that kind of money on a hose that would be kinking on me in a year.

I know I even had a thread about how to drill out your own LR-32 rail. I ended getting the long LR-32 rail and am very happy with it. This is different since I don't expect the LR-32 rail to wear out anytime soon. I also know that some of you will just say " get a boom arm" but I dont think the boom arm will work for me and my methods of work.

Eiji

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  How about putting the braided sleeve over the D36 hose as well if you get it?

Seth

 

[Steveo48]

It's important to note that you cannot actually "ground" PVC, or the material of a vacuum hose...... One quick zap to your body, and the full charge is drained off, until it builds up again.

John, I've never tried this but why couldn't you ground PVC or a hose with a simple piece of wire?  I use a 4" diameter hose off of a portable dust collector to clean the shop with.  If the hose is laying on my concrete floor, we don't get shocked, but pick it up to clean a table top, ZAP! 

Wouldn't a bolt/screw run into the PVC pipe connected to a ground wire  be effective?

Steve

 

[Michael Kellough]

Michael,
It seems like alot of effort to save a few bucks.

Dan and Brice,

After 1 year in the field my 27mm AS hose still works but is very abbraided, kinks very easily, and is oval in cross section. After worrying about the hose getting abbraided I put some braided sleeve over the hose and cord. My 27mm non AS hose which has seen just as much action still looks new.  I wanted to get a 36mm AS hose for sawing and routing but the price was hard to handle. Especially since most of my profit seems to be going to Festool these days anyway. I didn't notice any shocks using the 27mm non AS hose with my Fein Vac. Now that I am using the 36mm NAS hose with the CT Vac I am getting shocks. I just didn't what to spend that kind of money on a hose that would be kinking on me in a year.

I know I even had a thread about how to drill out your own LR-32 rail. I ended getting the long LR-32 rail and am very happy with it. This is different since I don't expect the LR-32 rail to wear out anytime soon. I also know that some of you will just say " get a boom arm" but I dont think the boom arm will work for me and my methods of work.

Eiji

Actually, that's the conclusion I hoped you'd make.

Your AS hose is oval in cross section from being stepped on right? Step on it the other way up.

 

[Steveo48]

.....Festool antistatic hoses have no visible electric leads; the high-carbon plastic they are made from conducts high voltage. The tool is grounded by way of the hose, through dust extractor, to the ground where it is plugged. If there is an open ground where the dust extractor is plugged, there is still the possibility of electric shock from the high voltage static charge produced by moving dust.

Shocking!  It might make for an interesting day if you plug into a job site that has a hot ground.  :

 

[Steveo48]

.....I did this in the winter and got the 2 worst shock I ever had. There actually was a blue ball about 3' in diameter on both the shocks! They stung pretty good and made a loud enough pop that my wife ran up from downstairs to see if I was alright. .....

Ken, your last name wouldn't be Tesla would it? 

Ouch!  I once saw another shop teacher get zapped by an ungrounded Van DeGraf generator.  A  36" blue lightning bolt shot out and hit him in the arm, the ker-SNAP sounded like a whip.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Just my experience, but I have never been shocked by my CT-22 with AS hose.  It also never collects dust on the hose.  On the other hand, my Shop-Vac almost always zaps me and it attracts dust to the hose like filings to a magnet.  We have exceptionally low humidity here, though, around 3-4% in the shop.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Just my experience, but I have never been shocked by my CT-22 with AS hose.  It also never collects dust on the hose.  On the other hand, my Shop-Vac almost always zaps me and it attracts dust to the hose like filings to a magnet.  We have exceptionally low humidity here, though, around 3-4% in the shop.

Possibly my favorite feature of the AS hose.

I've gotten a little bit of shocking in very low humidity when I was using my table saw as a table for sanding stuff. When I was sanding and touched the grounded TS I got small shocks with the TS hose but nothing like the jolts I get with the Fein vac and hose. Actually, I think the Festool AS hose was connected to the Fein vac so it probably wasn't grounded properly.

 

[Steveo48]

Just my experience, but I have never been shocked by my CT-22 with AS hose.  It also never collects dust on the hose.  On the other hand, my Shop-Vac almost always zaps me and it attracts dust to the hose like filings to a magnet.  We have exceptionally low humidity here, though, around 3-4% in the shop.

I wonder what the difference is, I use a shop vac for everything at home, router table, TS55, ETS 125 and never had had any type of static problems.  The hose either lays on the concrete floor or hangs on a hook overhead.  My big cyclone dust collector can build up a big charge.

 

[ultgar]

Also note that all of the hose cuffs are AS rated.  There is typically a point of ground at the vacuum inlet port and this ground tab is wired to the green ground conductor in the power cord.  Simply using an anti-static hose on a non-grounded vacuum will not give you the same protection.  SD