Incra TS on an MFT with CMS ?

[nachtwacht]

Hello,

First of all, if this is not the right part of the forum, excuse me. I do not have a solution to my problem yet, just looking for it so might be posting in the wrong part of the forum.

ever so often the Incra fences come by on this forum. So far I found numerous posts about different ways people mounted Incra tools on they MFT, mostly on the FOG forum.

What I have not come across yet is someone that has mounted an Table saw fence on their MFT (I actualy have the table saw / router combo in mind but they use the same rails)

It's this system that I am having in mind:

http://www.incra.com/product_tsf_lsts.htm

The XL version of this setup would fit the width of the MFT/3 so what I am currently looking for is a nice solution to mount the rails to the MFT. Since the Incra rails are 72inch (180cm) they will stick out (they will stick out even if you would cut them because they have to extend to the saw and router)

These rails are normaly mounted to a table saw by using pre drilled holes or by drilling holes yourself. They are mounted to a table as shown below in the picture:

It is ofcourse possible to just drill a few holes on the tableside of your MFT and then mount the rails on your MFT.

Now what I am curious about....

Would it not be a nice idea to mount the rails in some way to the Trail of the MFT ? Preferrable that they can easily be dismantled ? I am thinking about something that might slide into the Trail and can easily be tightened....

Maybe something simular like this:

I know I am not the first one to come up with this idea, I atleast have seen 1 posting of someone suggesting the same thing.... however so far I have not found any solutions. Hopefully there are ?

any suggestions more than welcome, thanks in advance !

 

[peter halle]

Sir Nacht...

I can't offer any advice, but at least I can say  [welcome] to the FOG!

 

[Corwin]

Rather than using the model designed for the table saw. why not use the simpler LS version that is designed for router tables?  You could make a base for the LS that would locate off two of the holes in the MFT's table top.  To me, the TS version seems far more product than needed to accomplish the job.

 

[nachtwacht]

Because I want to use it with the saw ?

I have seen on the forum that people installed the LS and that is indeed A LOT more simple to install. I am just not sure if it is strong enough to be using with the saw. If it was.... why would Incra ever make the TS version.... I can imagine that, when freshly installed, it will be strong enough but in time, when used, I trust the TS version a lot more than the LS version to keep the same accuracy (sturdiness is the word I come up with but not sure if that is the right word....)

My goal is to use the CMS module of both the TS75 to make it a table saw and the module for the router. So thats why I am looking for an "easy" way to install the TS.... it just looks stronger.....

Thanks for the welcome Mr. Halle !

 

[nachtwacht]

Corwin just made me realize that there could be an easier solution without loosing any of the strenght and stability the table saw version has.

The strenght of the table saw version comes from the fence being locked to the rail alongside the table. However, the MFT allready has some kind of rail alongside the table....

Anyone any idea how to "exchange" the below part:

so that it can be locked against the rail of the MFT ?

Maybe.... it could be as simple as just using some of the parts of the original Festool fence:

If it would be possible, it would lock on both sides wich I do not even think the Incra does.....

 

[Corwin]

BINGO!

... and you really only would parts to clamp the front end...

 

[nachtwacht]

BINGO!

that was indeed exactly the feeling I had when I started to think about it after your posting It's much easier than what I came up with first.

Has nobody done this before ? I know some have put Incra LS fences on their MFT but does anybody know if somebody actualy made a clamp for the fence so it would connect to the table ?

Thanks in advance !

 

[nachtwacht]

And another Bingo....

I would think that the Crown stop AB-KS would fit perfectly for the purpose I have in mind.

http://www.festool.co.uk/products/accessories/pages/detail.aspx?pid=494369&name=accessories-for-cross-cut-saw-kapex-ab-ks

It should not be to big a problem to use this to tighten the fence to the rail.... I would even think using these you could easily make a "slider" for the Incra base. Take a piece of wood that extends over the table, attach the stops to the bood, screw the base on the wood and finished.

Not the cheapest solution since you will need 3 of these so maybe there is a cheaper solution that will clamp just as easily to the MFT rail but atleast this one is very easy to work with.

 

[CutsTwice]

I have an Incra Ultralite on my home-made modular system with a TS55 running upside down in the table and I run 8 foot stock through it all the time. It only extends to 12 inches, but I use the guide rails on anything wider than 8 inches. It doesn't wiggle or flex a bit, but I wouldn't try to use it on anything larger than a foot wide.

 

[festoller]

Nachtwach:

I had the same problem and from one year of experience with the Positioner on the MFT I can confirm that you don't need the Incra TS!

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/mft-3-precision-saw-router-fence-with-incra-incremental-positioning-system/

The Positioner will not move if you attach it properly, of course there are many ways to do just that. With the MFT VL attached to the MFT/3 it's even better than my setup with the external router table.

One thing I would add is the Superfence if you use it for routing much (it's a lot cleaner).

 

[-The Dutch Guy-]

Hey another cheesehead  [big grin] [big grin]  [welcome] to the FOG

 

[JSands]

First, I commend your approach, I think this is something Festool will eventually introduce in the future, as IMO, its the only missing feature of the MFT / TS which is a bit lacking compared to a high quality Cabinet saw with precision measuring system.

I use lots of Incra rails... I have  mixed emotions about them...  I think in yesteryear, they were the cats meow.    But they always had one huge disadvantage, and that was, to get a good cutting range, you need long LS, and therefore the end would stick out far from the edge of the table, a bit cumbersome for TS system, which is designed mainly to work in tight spaces and fold up and store easily.  In addition, you can NOT put the place the Incra fence under the festool rail, limiting the size cut off you can measure, to the rail width, which is quite wide.  So how do you make a 4" cut?  Sure you can put spacers under there, etc., but the system looses its appeal.  So you can end up with a bulky system that has limited use.

OH, also, when the Incra rail is fully extended, it really needs end supports to keep it square, so the incra rails might be mandatory to assure a rock solid system... again, more bulk n weight... of course, much of this only matters if you plan to break the table down, or will it be stationary unit? 

I really like the Festool ripping fence.  Not sure its still in production?

If it is, have you considered mating it with a Wixey TS DRO?    This might be the best of all worlds, very little bulk, and very accurate, no fuss accurate readings....

http://www.wixey.com/fence/index.html

keep us posted on your concept.  IMO, you are doing the R&D on a Festool future product.....

 

[mattfc]

First, I commend your approach, I think this is something Festool will eventually introduce in the future, as IMO, its the only missing feature of the MFT / TS which is a bit lacking compared to a high quality Cabinet saw with precision measuring system.

I use lots of Incra rails... I have  mixed emotions about them...  I think in yesteryear, they were the cats meow.    But they always had one huge disadvantage, and that was, to get a good cutting range, you need long LS, and therefore the end would stick out far from the edge of the table, a bit cumbersome for TS system, which is designed mainly to work in tight spaces and fold up and store easily.   In addition, you can NOT put the place the Incra fence under the festool rail, limiting the size cut off you can measure, to the rail width, which is quite wide.  So how do you make a 4" cut?   Sure you can put spacers under there, etc., but the system looses its appeal.   So you can end up with a bulky system that has limited use.

OH, also, when the Incra rail is fully extended, it really needs end supports to keep it square, so the incra rails might be mandatory to assure a rock solid system... again, more bulk n weight... of course, much of this only matters if you plan to break the table down, or will it be stationary unit? 

I really like the Festool ripping fence.   Not sure its still in production?

If it is, have you considered mating it with a Wixey TS DRO?    This might be the best of all worlds, very little bulk, and very accurate, no fuss accurate readings....

http://www.wixey.com/fence/index.html

keep us posted on your concept.   IMO, you are doing the R&D on a Festool future product.....

Fully agree, the Incra is great for incremental work, but for absolute measurement its not the best option.. I have put the Wixey fence on my MFT+CMS combo, details here http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/digital-read-out-on-cmsmft-sysport/
Matt

 

[nachtwacht]

Little late reaction but did not do a lot on this project last few months but here we go !

I got some replies (here and in other places) as to why not to use the Festool ripping fence that comes with the table saw.

My main problem with it was that it was not accurate enough. Probably many people will disagree but I recently made a video using a new saw to show what can happen.

video 2011 11 18 10 25 25

The video shows that it is very easy to set the fence up completely not straight to the sawblade. Maybe I am not using the fence correctly there but all I do is slide it at the side where I am standing and then tightning it up. The video will show that the fence will not pull straight. I would say that the least a fence should do is always pull itself straight.

That was my main reason for not wanting to work with the fence that comes with it.

Building the complete Incra kit, with the stuff on the side etc. is not easy to do. Here is however another solution that I think is very nice:

http://www.feinewerkzeuge.de/incra-base-assembly.html

It does not give you a wide range for sawing, the widthe you can saw is somewhat limited, but it is more than with just using the CS70 without a side table. Very nice solution. The advantage here is also that because you are not extending the table dramaticaly, you do not need the side rails.

greetings

 

[builderbob]

That is an awesome setup with the saw!  The incra fences are awesome!  I have a similar setup to what is on that free standing router & it's fantastic!

Bob