Interested in a precision Domino indexing jig for cabinet/box construction?

[rmwarren]

Taking a poll here.  ???

I have an idea for a domino jig/fixture that is meant to simplify & speed up using dominos for cabinet box construction. It is sized for 3/4" and 1/2" box construction. The basic idea is to be able to clamp a side panel and end (top/bottom) panel into it, grab the Domino and whack out 2 rows of corresponding mortises as fast as you can plunge the Domino.

Setup would take < 5 minutes, capacity up to 24" and it would work best with 3/4" and 1/2" nominal material. Other thicknesses would work but the dominos would be slightly offset from the center-line of the panels. It would also work to domino fixed shelves in the same carcass, in 3/4" or thicker stock, total time to re-set the jig about a minute.

Cost estimated between $200 - $250, it would take 60 - 90 days to have them available.

I had planned to make one for myself by hand, but it is a weekend project. If there is interest from others I would probably just make a wooden prototype to test it (rather than making mine from aluminum) and then order a batch from a CNC shop instead.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Kev]

I'm interested enough to want to know a little more ...

Kev.

 

[erock]

Peaks my interest.  I would like to see a prototype.  Some photo's or maybe a video would be sweet. 

Eric

 

[Alan m]

id like more info  too.

 

[rmwarren]

Okay. I will either make a prototype over the holiday weekend & take pictures or mock it up in Sketchup. Anybody got a Domino Sketchup file?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Steve R]

Look forward to seeing it.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Sounds like Mr. Warren has some more ideas floating around in his head.  [wink]

I'm interested.

 

[rmwarren]

"Rattling around" is more like it...

Noisy up there at times.

RMW

Sounds like Mr. Warren has some more ideas floating around in his head.  [wink]

I'm interested.

 

[Steve R]

"Rattling around" is more like it...

Noisy up there at times.

RMW

Sounds like Mr. Warren has some more ideas floating around in his head.  [wink]

I'm interested.

I found turning off the Bluetooth ear bud helped quieting the voices in my head.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[rmwarren]

Little quiet around here today so I took the opportunity to mock this up - much easier than making one this weekend. See if this makes any sense.

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The fixture is basically 2 components: (1) a 660MM + long index plate with a series of holes along the center and (2) a plate that attaches to the Domino & has 2 equally spaced pins (pins not shown in the rendering) that fit the holes in the index plate. So far the holes are at 20MM centers and the pins will be 60MM on center, so you can make a mortise anywhere along the stock w/ 20MM spacing.

The index plate thickness places the mortise close to the center-line of the 3/4 nominal stock (+/- 10MM on center). Flip the plate over (idea borrowed from the Domi-Plate, I hope Ron does not mind) and the mortise will then center in 1/2" nominal stock. The darker pin is adjustable to set the distance of the first mortise from the edge of the plywood.

The light-colored piece shown is just a scrap of wood that is screwed to the index plate from below. There are slots in the index plate that you run screws thru and it adjusts front-to-rear for different stock thickness. Stock thicker than 3/4 can still be mortised, but the mortises remain centered at +/- 10MM off the edge.

In use you adjust the scrap wood for your stock thickness, clamp both pieces in them make one series of mortises, flip the domino over and make the other series. Rinse, lather, repeat as needed.

On the rear edge of the index plate there is an identical set of holes. For intermediate, fixed shelves you just mark the top edge of the shelf on the plywood box side & clamp the plate at that line. The plate on the Domino has slots so it will slide back from the face of the Domino to account for the thickness of the index plate and let the Domino rest on the plywood.

Quick and easy. Anyone see any issues or improvements to suggest?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Forgot to give credit to Jonny Round Boy for the clamps - found them in the Sketchup warehouse. Thanks!

RMW

 

[Alan m]

not sure if i need such a jig but i like the idea.

i would slightly taper the pins so that they allign  easier.

i would (assuming the hole is 6mm) make as deeper hole 4mm or 5mm so that a bolt with no head(like a grub screw) could be put in to stop you using holes you dont want.

i would use the 32 mm system (just because it keeps everthing matching up later)

make it in such a way as to cut both sides of a shelf from the same setup like it is on the end.

 

[rmwarren]

not sure if i need such a jig but i like the idea.

i would slightly taper the pins so that they allign  easier.

i would (assuming the hole is 6mm) make as deeper hole 4mm or 5mm so that a bolt with no head(like a grub screw) could be put in to stop you using holes you dont want.

i would use the 32 mm system (just because it keeps everthing matching up later)

make it in such a way as to cut both sides of a shelf from the same setup like it is on the end.

Alan,

Great suggestions. I never considered 32MM nor thought it through to realize the box sides are right hand and left hand and the index plate needs to be flipped.

I think reducing the spacing to 16MM will be much more flexible and fits the 32MM standard. For the sides I would probably just drill the index holes clear through, then one setup will work for both sides.

Thanks for the input, this is the great thing about working out ideas on the FOG!

RMW

 

[John Stevens]

Anyone see any issues or improvements to suggest?

Nice idea, hate to presume I could add to it, but how 'bout beveling or roundover on the indexing holes to make it easier/faster to slip the pins in?

Regards,

John

 

[Kev]

32mm for sure!

I'd be hesitant about having a piece standing vertically like that in practical terms - if I was assembling a 2m tall cabinet, your example would have a 2m piece standing vertically if wanted the tenons in the side face of the upright. Not ideal both from a working and alignment perspective (a few degree could be annoying - easier to get 90 flat.

 

[rmwarren]

Anyone see any issues or improvements to suggest?

Nice idea, hate to presume I could add to it, but how 'bout beveling or roundover on the indexing holes to make it easier/faster to slip the pins in?

Regards,

John

John,

Not presumptive at all, it is a good idea. I would plan to slightly chamfer the index holes and probably oversize them by 5 or 10 thousandths. The index pins are used in molds or fixture alignment and they have a slight bevel on the edge to make assembly easy.

Thanks for the input.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

32mm for sure!

I'd be hesitant about having a piece standing vertically like that in practical terms - if I was assembling a 2m tall cabinet, your example would have a 2m piece standing vertically if wanted the tenons in the side face of the upright. Not ideal both from a working and alignment perspective (a few degree could be annoying - easier to get 90 flat.

Kev,

Absolutely agree. I think in those situations I would individually clamp each panel rather than doing 2 at a time, and also lay the panel flat. I suspect that every tall cabinet would have at least one intermediate fixed shelf anyway, so laying the panel flat lets you do all the mortises without having to re-position the panel.

You could probably get away with clamping 2 panels at a time for typical base and upper cabinet boxes, but this may be optimistic. I will ultimately need to make one of these and try it to be sure.

The overriding concept to me it that there are only 2 adjustments to the fixture, thickness and the end stop. Thickness is easy, the end stop is the important one for ease of use and accuracy. Once that stop is set it is nearly impossible to not have the mortises perfectly aligned, unless you just use the wrong holes.

I picture myself putting a small, erasable mark or strip of tape at each point I plan to use as a mortise, something to give me a visual reference. These would probably change for each depth of panel.

Appreciate the input.

RMW

 

[Kev]

32mm for sure!

I'd be hesitant about having a piece standing vertically like that in practical terms - if I was assembling a 2m tall cabinet, your example would have a 2m piece standing vertically if wanted the tenons in the side face of the upright. Not ideal both from a working and alignment perspective (a few degree could be annoying - easier to get 90 flat.

Kev,

Absolutely agree. I think in those situations I would individually clamp each panel rather than doing 2 at a time, and also lay the panel flat. I suspect that every tall cabinet would have at least one intermediate fixed shelf anyway, so laying the panel flat lets you do all the mortises without having to re-position the panel.

You could probably get away with clamping 2 panels at a time for typical base and upper cabinet boxes, but this may be optimistic. I will ultimately need to make one of these and try it to be sure.

The overriding concept to me it that there are only 2 adjustments to the fixture, thickness and the end stop. Thickness is easy, the end stop is the important one for ease of use and accuracy. Once that stop is set it is nearly impossible to not have the mortises perfectly aligned, unless you just use the wrong holes.

I picture myself putting a small, erasable mark or strip of tape at each point I plan to use as a mortise, something to give me a visual reference. These would probably change for each depth of panel.

Appreciate the input.

RMW

I was thinking more in line with turning the entire contraption upside down and working downwards instead of end on. Then gravity is your friend.

It'd also be nice to have the alignment plate run at two depths - flush (for ends and for the ends of shelves) and raised to sink mortices for fixed shelves.

I'm imagining a slot on the underside with two sliding right angle clamps ... once you've set once side and left it locked as a reference ... no more measurements.

 

[tjbnwi]

Not to complicate (or should I complicate, that is the question) matters [big grin], but what about us pin Domino guys?

Tom

 

[rmwarren]

Kev - I am not sure I totally understand all your first 2 points but that may be because I explained it poorly in the beginning, I think we may be talking about some of the same things. I mocked up a Domino (badly...) with the plate, see if this makes any sense:

The index plate sits flush to the face of the domino to mortise panel ends, then the plate slides back the thickness of the index bar for the intermediate mortises:

Set up for mortising ends:


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Set up for intermediate mortises:


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Mortising the panel ends:


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Intermediate mortises:


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For the intermediate mortises you just mark the location you want the top of the shelf and align the edge of the index bar to that mark.

As far as how you clamp it to your panels I think you can pretty much orient it however you want, i.e. panels lying flat, standing on end, one or two at a time, etc. Whatever works for your situation.

On your last point I am also not sure I understand, are you suggesting replacing the Festool clamps with clamps that are attached to the index bar?

As far as setting the reference for all cuts that is done with the Black pin you see against the leading edge of the panels, it is meant to be adjustable, you can just see the slot it slides in. My idea is that all mortises are referenced from the same edge of all panels, probably the front, so it only needs one stop. There is no measuring after that stop is set. Did I misunderstand you?

RMW