Introducing TSO Power-Loc Bench Dog

[Rick Herrick]

I have done that too but with this Paulk'ish bench, there is not a lot of room underneath to easily do that and I always looked for easier methods.  I think these dogs are my 5th iteration of securing this jig.

 

[Cheese]

I recently wanted to use/install some TSO Power-Loc dogs that need a small chamfer around the 20 mm hole. TSO recommends this chamfer tool for use on MDF type material tops but NOT on plywood tops because it shreds the wood fibers and makes a mess.
https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-chamfer-tool/

Consequently, I came up with this solution. I purchased a piloted Weldon CS16-1 zero flute countersink.
https://www.travers.com/product/weldon-cs16-1-zero-flute-countersinkdeburring-07-056-260

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I machined an aluminum pilot adapter such that the OD fit the MFT holes and the ID fit the Weldon pilot end. I made the aluminum piece a medium press fit and pressed the two items together.

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It works pretty well although if you're not real careful, the countersink can move slightly off of vertical which produces a chamfer that is not exactly concentric with the 20 mm hole. When the countersink tilts it also doesn't cut the wood as cleanly as it should. For example:

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However, if you use this item in a drill press/drill guide it gives you some beautiful chamfers along with some very smooth cuts. The added advantage is the depth of the countersink can then also be controlled for a uniform cutting depth.

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[Michael Kellough]

Very cool solution, well done!

 

[mike_aa]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] Thanks!  That looks really neat.  Did you show it to Hans  [member=61691]TSO_Products[/member] ?

Mike A.

 

[Cheese]

Very cool solution, well done!

Thanks Michael......and here's an example of when there's no effort taken to chamfer the hole and make sure the countersink is perpendicular to the surface.

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[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] Thanks!  That looks really neat.  Did you show it to Hans  [member=61691]TSO_Products[/member] ?

Thanks Mike......Ya Hans & I had a discussion on the merits of this item.  [smile]

My original intent was to use this hand held with a drill but that didn't produce the quality of cut and the uniformity that I was looking for. The drill stand solved all of those issues but it's an extra piece of equipment and depending upon the manufacturer of the stand, it can get expensive quickly. Also in the case of the Woodpeckers drill stand, I'd exchange the standard return spring with an item that has less resistance, i.e. a lower rate spring.

The normal mentality is to just chamfer the holes that you need, not necessarily all of the holes on the MFT. That makes the job easier at the time but you're then forced to always use those same holes or repeatedly dig out the countersink and countersink additional holes...that can be an on-going issue.  [sad]

Once set up in the drill stand with the countersink depth set, it's a piece of cake to just countersink all of the holes at once.  [smile]

Just an alternative.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Cheese .. how can I say this politely..
Well, you need to make and sell (with a strictly low margin!) to all of us here..  [big grin]

Anyway, always interesting reading and viewing when you have done some metal work to help woodworking go easier  [smile]

But, won’t a 45° bearing guided chamfer bit in a router do?
I haven’t yet, but I’m about to..

 

[afish]

I would think a chamfer bit would work too. Also those power locs have a pretty small lip on them.  I havent tried but depending on the plywood a good torque might be enough to get them flush.  I use mine to hold down my vacuum pods to the bench and they work great for that.

 

[tsmi243]

I did a 45* chamfer bit in a router.  Never found anything that was critical about the size of the chamfer, so I just set it to look right and hit every hole on the MFT in about 3 minutes.  Couldn't be easier.

 

[TSO_Products]

But, won’t a 45° bearing guided chamfer bit in a router do?
I haven’t yet, but I’m about to..

YES, [member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member], - a bearing guided chamfer bit has worked well for us in a trim router. I think Nick expected more difficulty in this application than it actually involves.

Nice when things work out easrier than expected for a change  [smile]

Hans

 

[Cheese]

YES, [member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member], - a bearing guided chamfer bit has worked well for us in a trim router. I think Nick expected more difficulty in this application than it actually involves.

Nice when things work out easrier than expected for a change  [smile]

Well this certainly does bring to the forefront a discussion of how previous experiences can ultimately affect your future thought process. [smile]  For me it was the Woodpeckers MFT plate that was supposed to be used with an undersized router bit (1/2"diameter) to produce a 20 mm diameter hole. That didn't work very well and while struggling along those lines I acquired the mindset that the most accurate method to produce a precision hole was to use a single precision cutter that was sized to cut a precise diameter hole...not an undersized cutter that you would move around in a circle, that was goofy and it's been proven to be so.

Such also are my thoughts about a chamfer bit being manually moved around a diameter. Why not just plunge to a depth and then progress to the next hole. Pretty simple. No herky-jerky motion needed.

If precision is not a requisite for a particular solution then I get it but what's wrong with tight concentricity when it's easy and it's a bonus round and costs you nothing?

 

[afish]

there is nothing wrong with it or your method.  Slightly more complicated than most would deal with. I also agree that drilling a hole with a good bit will produce better results than machining a hole with a undersized bit.  The chamfer is more forgiving and realistically doesn't need to be perfect but if you have the tools and skill to do it then great. 

 

[Cheese]

there is nothing wrong with it or your method.  Slightly more complicated than most would deal with. I also agree that drilling a hole with a good bit will produce better results than machining a hole with a undersized bit.  The chamfer is more forgiving and realistically doesnt need to be perfect but yo have the tools and skill to do it then great.

You're absolutely correct...whatever gives you the results you desire is a winner...being a retired engineer I may be a bit quirky in the results I want...that's just part of the breed and part of the regimen...but that's sometimes labeled as progress.  [smile]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Cheese .. how can I say this politely..
Well, you need to make and sell (with a strictly low margin!) to all of us here..  [big grin]

Anyway, always interesting reading and viewing when you have done some metal work to help woodworking go easier  [smile]

But, won’t a 45° bearing guided chamfer bit in a router do?
I haven’t yet, but I’m about to..

I could make such a thing quite easily for you, but shipping to Norway might make it cost prohibitive?

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] the 12c dated you... [poke]

Fellow member of the reverse-thumb-calculator club  [thumbs up]

RMW

 

[FestitaMakool]

Thanks [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] - Yes, it will probably be easier and cheaper to have a metal shop do it locally. I’m actually visiting one tomorrow asking for a quote on a custom job welding Alu or SS pipes as underglide protection for larger trucks who run into a facade.. way too often.. [blink]
But that’s a work related matter - still I’m going to hear if they do CNC and other custom work.

Cheese, the Woodpecker drill thingy looks usable, are you happy with it?  [smile]

 

[Vondawg]

#15….yes ….[member=44099]Cheese[/member]..I can’t get your Vise out of my head..I’m with Rob z …it’s is a beautiful thing !

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Thanks [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] - Yes, it will probably be easier and cheaper to have a metal shop do it locally. I’m actually visiting one tomorrow asking for a quote on a custom job welding Alu or SS pipes as underglide protection for larger trucks who run into a facade.. way too often.. [blink]
But that’s a work related matter - still I’m going to hear if they do CNC and other custom work.

Cheese, the Woodpecker drill thingy looks usable, are you happy with it?  [smile]

If you can't make it happen locally, I can still do it. We can work it out somehow, if needed.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] the 12c dated you... [poke]

Fellow member of the reverse-thumb-calculator club  [thumbs up]

Hey [member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] ...that is probably the 11C but I can't tell for sure. I did purchase a 12 several years later when they discontinued production of the 11 because I didn't want to be without, what a sweet piece of equipment.

However to your point, I'm not really dating myself, on the contrary you're dating yourself because who the heck would even recognize that dinosaur...other than another dinosaur.  [poke] [poke]

But just because I feel nostalgic tonight, here's a trip down memory lane.

This 11C was used daily for engineering issues over a 30 year span of time. That's a lot of key strokes. Check out the numbers on the buttons...nothing is faded or worn off, it makes you wonder what type of nuclear based ink HP printed the keys with.  [eek]

The only readily apparent wear is the smudging of the logo in the upper RH corner which happens when you return it to its sheath every evening.

In over 40 years of use I've changed the batteries maybe 3-4 times...simply an incredible calculator. Do small issues like this even matter in today's world as I'm fighting with migration issues between a couple of mac's?

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[rmwarren]

However to your point, I'm not really dating myself, on the contrary you're dating yourself because who the heck would even recognize that dinosaur...other than another dinosaur.  [poke] [poke]

Guilty as charged. I didn't even know there was an 11c. It's missing the financial keys I use.

Mine sits on my desk, primarily for amortization. I used to bring it along on our rare auto buying trips just to annoy the salespeople when they start their "what's your payment goal" dance.

I now have the 12c app on my phone, so I guess you'd call that progress...

RMW