Is a 5 turbine HVLP worth the extra $$

[frodo]

I have been researching Apollo HVLP systems for spraying built in place cabinets/vaities etc. and figured the more turbines the better for spraying paint. But after checking the specs I noticed that the 4 turbine and 5 turbine systems produce the same CFM and  the 5 has only a half pound higher psi rating. That being said, is the 5 turbine system worth the extra couple of hundred bucks and if so why?

 

[tiralie]

I went through the same thing and figured that it wasn't really worth it. I think it depends on what you plan to regularly spray. I thought I would probably spend the money on a PPS system, or pressure pot and hoses so I could spray higher viscosity coatings.
I can spray everything with my 4 stage Fuji turbine except high solids coatings like Target EM 6500 WB lacquer. I need a pressure pot and a small compressor with my turbine to spray that.

Tim

 

[CarolinaNomad]

Tim,  for that Target EM 6500 paint, are you connecting the small air compressor to the air supply of the Turbine in order to increase the cfm?

Jeff

 

[frodo]

I was considering the pressure pot with the HVLP also Tim. How do you set it up with the turbine?

 

[duburban]

if my memory serves me correct, you replace the paint container at the gun with a hose coming from the pressurized paint pot. in the gun there is the turbine air and pressurized paint flow only. extra compressor energy goes into pushing the paint through and actual atomization happens with the same turbine power.

 

[tiralie]

if my memory serves me correct, you replace the paint container at the gun with a hose coming from the pressurized paint pot. in the gun there is the turbine air and pressurized paint flow only. extra compressor energy goes into pushing the paint through and actual atomization happens with the same turbine power.

Exactly! You need to make some adjustments to the gun because you are using air from the compressor you must block off the air that would normally go from the turbine to the siphon or gravity cup. There are directions with part list in the Fuji manual to do this.

Tim

 

[frodo]

Got it. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Michael Kellough]

if my memory serves me correct, you replace the paint container at the gun with a hose coming from the pressurized paint pot. in the gun there is the turbine air and pressurized paint flow only. extra compressor energy goes into pushing the paint through and actual atomization happens with the same turbine power.

Once you've done that, and have the liberty of turning the gun upside down etc. with no bulk, it's hard to go go back to carrying all the paint/finish at the gun.

 

[frodo]

I'm a little confused. Some of the hvlp guns I am considering say they are pressure feed and require 13 cfm. The turbine system I have says it puts out 130 CFM. Why would I need to divert the turbine pressure.

 

[tiralie]

Why would I need to divert the turbine pressure.

You don't. Where did you get that from?
Tim

 

[frodo]

My mistake, I meant the gun. OK what do I need to run a remote (2Qt ) pot with my hvlp set up? Do I need a compressor in addition to the turbine?

 

[tiralie]

Do I need a compressor in addition to the turbine?

Yes. Air hose from compressor to pot and then fluid line from the pot to the gun. The compressor doesn't have to be a beast, you are only pressurizing the pot enough so the paint moves up to the gun.
Follow the directions for the pot for the correct pressure.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Yes, you need a small compressor to move the fluid from the pot to the gun. Mt favorite id a 2.5 gallon pot, no pot cleaning, just place the can in the pot set the lid with the tube in the fluid and off you go. I can run my pot off of my Jc10. You need to check the fluid specs when running a pot, it is possible to run the pressure so high that the fluid passes the air cap before being properly atomized. If there is no pot spec, you should play ewith the pressure to get best application. I've never had to run over 30 psi.

What Tim was referring to when he said "you must block off the air that would normally go from the turbine to the siphon or gravity cup" is the small tube that pressurizes the fluid canister needs to be capped or plugged in some way, normal this is done at the gun port.

Tom

Tim beat me to it.

 

[Scott B.]

Interesting discussion. The idea of growing HVLP spraying from a quart at a time up to 2.5 gallons or so sure is intriguing.

The part that is interesting is that where Tom and Tim are using a compressor to supply the air to the pot, there are some turbines that have the ability to play that role in a modular integrated system. At a practical level, I might prefer to hear a turbine running than a compressor...I saw one, I believe it was the Titan version of this type of system that could move some medium viscosity. I believe it was moving 7.5 psi in three stages. Evidently, that is a good chunk of air to pressurize that pot. One might guess it could take more though. I never feel like it is the back end (pump, turbines, aaa integrated compressors) that are weak in any of the newer systems that are out. But I think the cutting edge going forward will to be to give us more (read: complete) control right at the gun, as the operator. I believe Apollo may have an integrated or modular setup for pressure pot use as well.

 

[tjbnwi]

I've stated before that I've never shot with a C.A.T. gun, well I was wrong.

A friend has the predecessor to this model C.A.T. system;

http://www.spraycat.com/Black%20Cat%20Sales%20Lit.pdf

As you can see it is a self contained system that uses a compressor as the pressure source. There is no cup on this gun, I do not know if the passage is machined in the gun to support a cup. The system was very smooth to use, cycle time was about once every 60 seconds.

That system is different than my set up that I use on the Fuji. I supply air pressure to the pot with a small compress, the turbine supplies the gun. There are a few advantages to using a pressure pot. It allows you to shoot for longer periods before refilling the container. As I said I much prefer dropping in a gallon can the pouring into the pot. I'm to lazy to clean the pot. My Q4 delivers about 10 psi to the cup, if the fluid moves properly to the air cap at 10 psi, that is all the pressure I need to apply to the pot. I can increase pressure to the pot, this allows for the moment of thicker material. Once the material is to the gun the air cap does the rest. When I need to take the unit to a job, I can choose to go with just the turbine or the pot and turbine. you must keep the supply hoses clean, I have gotten in the habit of switching the hose end for end when I clean it. This allows the cleaning fluid to dislodge any particles in the hose.

At my gun I can adjust, pattern, full fan to a tight circle, fluid volume and pressure to the gun. All these adjustments in hand is why I went with the Fuji over others when I bought the Q4.

Next time I have the pot set up I'll take some pictures. I also like that I can use the PPS system on my gun.

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

Sounds like a good system with lots of options, Tom.

 

[tjbnwi]

Biggest draw back may be wear on the turbine. I've had mine 4 years now, so far so good. I am in the habit of shutting it off instead of letting it run against a head for an extended period of time.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

Biggest draw back may be wear on the turbine. I've had mine 4 years now, so far so good. I am in the habit of shutting it off instead of letting it run against a head for an extended period of time.

I think the longest I had mine running for was an hour/hour and half.

I believe Apollo may have an integrated or modular setup for pressure pot use as well.

They do. It's a cool looking system (small pump for the pressure pot) and one I thought about quite a bit before I bought my Fuji.
I figured whatever I bought was gonna need to be tweaked to my preferences so Fuji is where I started.
Tim

 

[Scott B.]

Biggest draw back may be wear on the turbine. I've had mine 4 years now, so far so good. I am in the habit of shutting it off instead of letting it run against a head for an extended period of time.

Tom

Turbines are really just little backwards CT Midis. I wish Festool would just give the midi a reverse gear so no one on the Fog would have to worry about how to move material!

As much skullduggery as we do around our shop, a turbine is something we have yet to kill.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I think Titan and Graco both have turbine systems that also have a very small air compressor for a pressure pot.

It takes very little pressurized air to "run" even a 2.5 gallon pressure pot. I think a simple auxiliary air tank would do it.