Is A Biscuit Just A Biscuit?

[onocoffee]

I recently acquired a used Elu 3380 biscuit joiner but I only have experience using a Domino. I know nothing about biscuits but I see Warrior at Harbor Freight for $8, Porter Cable, DeWalt and other brands at the box stores. What is the deal with biscuits? Are they one and the same? I've seen people say the LaMello are The Best? I'd like to get some biscuits to try it out and I'm not necessarily price sensitive - meaning if the LaMello are The Best, then I'll get those. But I'm open to your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[Packard]

I have not noticed much difference between brands. What you don’t want is old inventory. The biscuits are compressed and swell while absorbing the water from the wood glue. But they will absorb moisture from the air, so you should store them in an air-tight container. I use screw top jars for that purpose.

The plastic bags that they are packaged in does a reasonable job of keeping moisture out, but is not fully air tight. So I transfer them from the bags to jars when I get them.

I buy mine from wood-dowel.com (where I also buy my dowels and Shaker pins for coat racks). I just checked and #10 biscuits are $22.60/hundred.

Wood Joining Biscuits > Wood-Dowel

Wood Joining Biscuits are available from stock in #0, #10, and #20 sizes as well as the smaller R2 and R3 Mini Biscuits used for Picture Frames. Face Frame Biscuits, too!

wood-dowel.com

In my opinion, biscuits are faster, cheaper and easier to use than other methods. I am a dowel-guy and there is almost no cost difference between dowels and biscuits.

But dowels and dominoes are superior for adding structure to a joint. But for applying face frame to cabinet box, they make a very strong and fastener free method.

The most important key is fresh inventory and store in air tight containers.

 

[Cheese]

I'm not really a fan of biscuits and I'll preface that statement by saying I've owned a Porter Cable tool and used strictly Porter Cable biscuits stored in the original PC plastic containers with screw-on covers. The issue with the PC stuff was that the biscuits never produced a tight fit so dry-fitting the individual pieces was never possible and sometimes on some assemblies, dry-fitting is almost mandatory. True statement...I got rid of all of the PC stuff the day after I purchased the DF 500.

I see that Lamello claims a line-to-line fit which was never the case with the PC stuff. It's probably a combination of the Lamello tool, the Lamello cutter and the Lamello biscuit that allows for the snug fit. The quote below is from Lamello as is the photo:

"During being stamped, the thickness of the wooden biscuits is checked several times per hour to ensure the accuracy of fit. This accuracy of fit pays off in the application as the wooden biscuits easily fit into a 4 mm groove but do not fall out when the workpiece is turned over for assembly. The slightly raised guide rails on the jointing biscuit reduce the resistance when inserting and holding the joining element in the groove. The remaining surface serves as a more compressed gluing surface on which the adhesive can be distributed."

 

[Packard]

I'm not really a fan of biscuits and I'll preface that statement by saying I've owned a Porter Cable tool and used strictly Porter Cable biscuits stored in the original PC plastic containers with screw-on covers. The issue with the PC stuff was that the biscuits never produced a tight fit so dry-fitting the individual pieces was never possible and sometimes on some assemblies, dry-fitting is almost mandatory. True statement...I got rid of all of the PC stuff the day after I purchased the DF 500.

I see that Lamello claims a line-to-line fit which was never the case with the PC stuff. It's probably a combination of the Lamello tool, the Lamello cutter and the Lamello biscuit that allows for the snug fit. The quote below is from Lamello as is the photo:

"During being stamped, the thickness of the wooden biscuits is checked several times per hour to ensure the accuracy of fit. This accuracy of fit pays off in the application as the wooden biscuits easily fit into a 4 mm groove but do not fall out when the workpiece is turned over for assembly. The slightly raised guide rails on the jointing biscuit reduce the resistance when inserting and holding the joining element in the groove. The remaining surface serves as a more compressed gluing surface on which the adhesive can be distributed."

Alignment will not occur until the biscuits swell from absorbing the moisture in the glue. Dry, compressed biscuits are not going to be a tight fit.

I tested this by making a joint and then dipping the biscuit briefly in water and painting water inside the slots. Left to dry with no glue, made a tight, difficult to disassemble joint.

I have found that the biscuits reliably align boards edge to edge when the glue dried. I no longer use biscuits for cabinet boxes. The biscuits have good strength in shear, and can be used for shelves with no problem. They also provide good pull out strength, which makes it excellent for attaching face frames to cabinet boxes.

But it adds very little to racking strength in a cabinet box. That is why I prefer dowels.

In my opinion, there is no one-joinery-type-fits-all-situations. I pick what works best for me in each situation. For example, I join face frames with pocket holes. I have tried saddle joints, dowels, and biscuits, but the pocket hole joinery works best for me.

I have attached face frames to boxes using glue and nails, glue only, pocket holes and biscuits. Pocket holes are fast and easy, but show. If it is necessary to hide the fasteners, I use biscuits.

 

[tsmi243]

I don't know why so many people complain about biscuits. They're not as good as Dominos, obviously, but they're cheap, fast, and for several decades before 2007 it was your only option.

Think about a real long joint, with floppy or slightly bowed material. Like a tall kitchen cabinet. Adding a biscuit slot every foot or so goes a LONG way towards making glueup easier. Especially if you're working alone. They won't hold the whole thing together, but they'll keep it in position while you clamp up and hit it with the stapler. Ever used a rabbet for situations like this? Same thing, just faster.

Dowels would work too, but c'mon. Dowel jigs with a drill are slow, don't tolerate ANY error in the measurements, and you need two different jigs to make right angles. Biscuits? Just get within 2-3mm of your pencil marks, and plunge twice. Zero adjustments needed. Corner joint done. WITH dust collection.

Need an offset, like when installing a face frame? Cut a spacer block. Still no adjustment to the tool needed. You'd do the same thing with a Domino.

It also has all the exact same cutting & alignment features as the Domino- a flat base, a fence, and center marks... OK I guess mine doesn't have end stops, but some might? So you can do your layouts and offsets in a repeatable manner, with basically identical workflow to the Domino or Mafell.

Cheap biscuits have always worked fine for me. But for most assembly work, even if they don't fit great, you're not talking about a 1/4" gap- it's less than a mm. Even Domino joints need sanding afterwards if you're looking for nanometer precision.

As for "Alignment will not occur until the biscuits swell from absorbing the moisture in the glue"..... uhh, OK boss. Plenty of other internet genuises will tell you NOT to glue them in, to prevent telegraphing. So pick your pedantry, it's gotta be one or the other, right? Don't want the biscuit police storming in and busting your operation up over unsanctioned gluing.

Like Cheese said, if you have a Domino then there's not much point to adding a biscuit joiner to your arsenal. But the other way around? $250 American is all you need to spend to get a lot of the same benefits.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I’m with Cheese, my Porter Cable biscuit joiner was inadequate. In hindsight I guess the blade/arbor produced mortises that were too tall so biscuits were too loose (even Lamello) to align slightly bowed plywood. Domino to the rescue.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The Lamello is far superior to the other biscuit jointers for one simple reason, the fence. The main pivoting mechanism is solid. It does not move up and down, to change the height of the cut, from the surface. It is effectively centered on 3/4" ish (18 to 20mm) and cannot move. Simple flip down and it will cut exactly where it cut on parts you made months ago. There is a detachable 90 fence, that does move, if you need to alter the built-in height.
Otherwise, it is similar to the rest, in that same form-factor. (I would guess it has a better motor, than the big box brands too)
The real question is whether that is worth that is worth the extra cost. Personally, I would spend that money toward a Zeta P-2 instead, since a simple blade change can transform it into cutting regular biscuits too. The P-2 can really be a great addition, to pretty much any shop.
I kept my DeWalt biscuit jointer, when I got my first Domino, not really using it. I did not get a new one after the fire loss though. Keeping something that is costing nothing, but some space, is different from buying again, to just sit.
The biscuits themselves are somewhat of a toss-up. They are not the precision parts that Dominos can be, at least the legit Festool brand. They are indeed compressed, IMO more than Dominos, which are more like embossed. That makes them more reactive to moisture. As others have said, it pays to keep them in air-tight containers, unless you are in the desert like @PaulMarcel. I'm sure he doesn't need to care.
Most of the time, you can fix swollen ones, by steaming the moisture out, in a microwave oven.
Gluing big sloppy biscuits, especially if you have to force them together, can cause problems. However, if they go in nicely while dry, you're fine. The real issue is when sanding the joint too early. If everything is sanded flat/flush, while it is still swollen, you will get a sunken depression, when the biscuit shrinks back to original size.

 

[luvmytoolz]

That's the DeWalt version of the ELU DS140, and is probably the second best biscuit joiner around after the Mafell Top's. I've always used a mix of manufacturers biscuits and they're pretty much all the same. Even if they've dried out they're plywood and you're applying glue generally so it doesn't really matter how old they are.

You'll probably find this joiner more useful as a mini ripsaw though than a biscuit joiner. It's fantastic for trim work and grooving.

 

[PaulMarcel]

That makes them more reactive to moisture. As others have said, it pays to keep them in air-tight containers, unless you are in the desert like @PaulMarcel. I'm sure he doesn't need to care.

Ha! Recently, I was building a stage prop with Dominos after weeks of monsoon storms. I noticed the Dominos were a bit snugger than usual so I know what you're talking about, but don't feel the full brunt of it.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Ha! Recently, I was building a stage prop with Dominos after weeks of monsoon storms. I noticed the Dominos were a bit snugger than usual so I know what you're talking about, but don't feel the full brunt of it.

When I was making my own Domino's and did a bunch of measurements on Festool ones to take the average on, it was surprising how oversize they were generally. Not talking much, 0.05mm-0.2mm but enough to make an extremely tight fit considering they are compressed.

So tight it was essentially wiping the glue off the faces.

 

[Michael Kellough]

When I was making my own Domino's and did a bunch of measurements on Festool ones to take the average on, it was surprising how oversize they were generally. Not talking much, 0.05mm-0.2mm but enough to make an extremely tight fit considering they are compressed.

So tight it was essentially wiping the glue off the faces.

One the reasons I usually don’t brother putting glue on the Dominos. If they do happen to be loose at the time I will add glue.

 

[smorgasbord]

Biscuits are cut at a bias angle - I wonder why no-one makes biscuits with perpendicular grain, which I think might help strength. I assume there was some logic/testing involved, but still.

 

[ChuckS]

One the reasons I usually don’t brother putting glue on the Dominos. If they do happen to be loose at the time I will add glue.

The grooves on the dominoes do retain some glue even if the insertions are super super tight. For edge joining, the use of glue is optional because the use of dominoes in itself is optional (the main reason I use dominoes in edge joining is to keep the boards flush). Out of habit, I use glue for all domino applications, including edge joining.

 

[P_K]

I usually buy the OEM Lamello biscuits from Colonial Saw but the Czech-made Pinnie ones from Taylor are good if you're looking for quantities of less than 1,000. They also sell singles of 8mm - 14mm x 750mm long Domino tenons.

Pinie Beech Biscuit Joiners | Taylor Tools

Pinie Beech Biscuit Joiners

taytools.com

Pinie Beech Wooden Tenon Sticks | Taylor Tools

Pinie Beech Wooden Tenon Sticks

taytools.com

 

[Steve1]

Alignment will not occur until the biscuits swell from absorbing the moisture in the glue. Dry, compressed biscuits are not going to be a tight fit.

I'm not sure how long it takes for the biscuits to swell to take up clearance, but after my glue up is clamped, the biscuits aren't going to move either member.

I find significant variation in biscuit thickness (out of the same package). Some are a nice sliding fit, some are sloppy. So I end up checking each biscuit thickness and not using the sloppy ones.

 

[leakyroof]

I'm spoiled with Biscuit usage, even though I never use them anymore after getting both of my Dominos.....
I'll explain. I've only owned and used Lamello BIscuit Jointers. Started with a sort of basic model that came in a wooden case. Forget the title, like maybe Top model, but wasn't the real low end of the range that they offered.The only real draw back to this machine was the lack of Dust Collection. So, I carefully drilled and threaded a hole in the base, and cobbled up my own dust adapter to work with pretty small dust collection hoses and a shop vac. Later, I sold that one off and bought a used Top Ten model, which had DC built-in as a feature from the start.
But I never use it anymore, and still have the assortment of Lamello biscuits in bags in my shop. But I'm reluctant to sell it, since they are useful and it's paid for, and I have the supplies for it.
One more strange fact. I built a good few outdoor projects using Biscuits. With a Type 2 or Type 3 glue from Titebond, the joints all held up even though the Biscuits aren't made for exterior exposure.
All that changed with the Dominos and Sipo Tenons...

 

[onocoffee]

I also noticed that Lamello has a P-14 Aligning Elements which look like plastic biscuits. Can these be used in the same manner as biscuits, including in glue ups? I'm not forecasting heavy use of biscuits in my work and would like to keep some around, just in case. My thinking is that having 1,000 biscuits might be a bit much.