Is CNC woodworking?

[HowardH]

I couldn't find a thread on this but Laguna sent me an email today extolling the virtues of their $45,000 CNC.  That got me to thinking...Is CNC woodworking?  Sure, you have to come up with a design and probably have to get the wood prepped, unless you are doing plywood, and then probably do some assembly but with technology, the hand skills that defined woodworkers have been eroded I think.  I'm sure the woodworkers of the 19th century probably asked the same question when electric equipment began to be introduced.  I wonder where the line will be drawn or does it even matter?  I would love to get a CNC some day when I have the shop room.  The cutting boards that Andrei (MTMwood) has been making when he introduced a CNC into his shop have really been over the top and probably never would be possible without the tech.  Another example would be the Domino.  Floating tenons have been around forever but for the first time, after it was introduced, the mortices could be cut perfectly in a fraction of the time.  Again, does this detract from the artistry of woodworking?  Maybe, maybe not.  Just some ruminations while killing time...

 

[rljatl]

I lost interest in photography when it became all digital.  The last thing I want to do is spend more time driving a computer and I feel the same way about CNCs.  It would be different if I was doing it for a living.

 

[HowardH]

I still have quite a bit of Portra 400 in the fridge to go with my Nikon F100.  Just have to make the effort to use it. 

 

[rljatl]

I still have quite a bit of Portra 400 in the fridge to go with my Nikon F100.  Just have to make the effort to use it.

Me too, only its Provia and Velvia.

 

[Wooden Skye]

This is a never going to agree argument.  I see the merits in CNC if making a living, but as a hobby, I'm really on the fence.

 

[Cheese]

I lost interest in photography when it became all digital.  The last thing I want to do is spend more time driving a computer and I feel the same way about CNCs.

I always embraced digital photography, however, at the same time, I made a pact with myself to not alter the photos through software but through the camera settings, the exact same method used for film photography. I’ve also never been a fan of dark room manipulation even though Ansel Adams was a genius in that regard and he is still one of my favorites. 

The Nikon F, Nikon F5, Nikonos IV and the D500 all get shot the same way...vary the shutter speed, vary the aperture...don’t futz with the software.

I’d love to have a CNC as long as I wasn’t a slave to the software. [eek]

 

[estley]

i imagine at some point similar discussions were held about routers, table saws, dominoes.....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WastedP]

I feel that I am a wood machinist most of the time.  I don't use a CNC very often, usually contracted.  There's still a lot of creativity involved in designing projects and choosing materials.  The problem-solving component of woodworking is going to happen whether the tools are stone age of space age.

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you work with wood, it's woodworking.

Times change, tools change, results stay.

 

[Stone Message]

The majority of woodworking tools (perhaps all) require the user to either be holding the wood, holding the tool or both. The CNC just requires the operator to position the wood and press a button or two - sounds simple really.

However, the creative thought, the experience and knowledge of wood, of joints and glues are required for both. Plans need to be sketched or drawn, wood prepared and work flow established. The CNC side can be argued to be far more complex as it does require knowledge of software and machining best practice.

My view is, as Alex says, it is all woodwork.

 

[Rob-GB]

Is CNC woodworking? 

Yes...... but, for me, it lacks soul and so do the products made this way.
It also gives a false idea to many that everything has to be perfectly the same even if it is hand wrought.
What makes a craftsman is the aspiration of perfection and the continuing challenge that creates.

I already design in CAD rather than on paper and work from a laptop rather than printed plans, I have written programs for CAD to speed up design on some basic stair designs and produced a form in Excel to work out cutting lists including sash weights for Box Sash Windows so I am not adverse to change.
I just would not get any satisfaction in having the CNC do all the work and turn me from craftsman to assembler.

Rob.

 

[Stone Message]

I agree with Rob about woodwork done on a CNC lacking soul. I also agree about craftsmanship but it still leaves CNC work in one region of the vast space that we call woodwork.

Peter

 

[Sparktrician]

I always embraced digital photography, however, at the same time, I made a pact with myself to not alter the photos through software but through the camera settings, the exact same method used for film photography. I’ve also never been a fan of dark room manipulation even though Ansel Adams was a genius in that regard and he is still one of my favorites. 

The Nikon F, Nikon F5, Nikonos IV and the D500 all get shot the same way...vary the shutter speed, vary the aperture...don’t futz with the software.

I’d love to have a CNC as long as I wasn’t a slave to the software. [eek]

Like The Cheesie One, I've loved digital photography almost from the start.  In contrast, I've really enjoyed the use of digital techniques to clarify certain scenes.  I really don't like over-processed HDR photographs, but subtly-enhanced shots are pretty good.  Finding appropriately competent software has been quite a challenge, though.  I abhor Adobe's processes and especially their business model.  Finding Darktable has been a terrific advantage, although it has run only on Linux or Mac until recently.  While it's a VERY complex package, there's tremendous power in that complexity.  That said, I really miss Kodachrome 25 and Cibachrome.  I don't miss having to change film rolls after 36 shots, though, and I love being able to see the image immediately.

Then again, when it comes to woodworking, I prefer to not use CNC-cut parts.  My jobs are all one-offs, so there's really no advantage.  And when I consider the $45K price mentioned, I could buy quite a suite of Festool goodies and digital cameras with that, and not need to hire a rigger to move them. 

 

[bobfog]

No it's not.

It's machine operation, and is no more woodwork than putting a ready-made meal in a microwave is cooking.

 

[HarveyWildes]

Is CNC woodworking? 

Yes...... but, for me, it lacks soul and so do the products made this way.

CNC is just another tool.  In my mind, it makes it easy to do precise work to digital models.  The craftsmanship is in the creation of the models rather than use of the tools.  I think it puts another layer of abstraction, between the craftsman and the wood.

For me, the soul of a woodworking project is the wood.  My primary goal is to bring out the natural beauty of the wood I'm using.  The next is to make something useful, so that the beauty of the wood will be appreciated as the piece is used.  Next are objectives around my engagement in the process - the satisfaction that comes from using tools effectively to accomplish the primary goals, from feeling the wood, and from applying creativity to the process.

The closer a tool brings me to those goals, the more "soul" is in the process and the result.  In theory, the choice of tools is irrelevant to the primary goal of bringing out the natural beauty of the wood.  In that sense, CNC is just another tool that can be brought to bear on the primary objective.  In practice, I've learned things about wood from using hand tools that I never would have learned from a CNC machine.  But for the attentive craftsman, maybe the reverse is true as well.

If CNC is just used for it's own sake, then the craft of creating CNC models is the focus.  At that point the material loses its significance.  The implication is that you might as well do all of your CNC work with MDF.  But in fact people want to do CNC work with wood (maybe plywood for the big stuff), so clearly the material has not lost its significance, which begs the question why - because we appreciate the beauty of the wood.  Which kind of leads back to the primary goal.

There is a startup curve for CNC where you are learning the technology, and hopefully the people using CNC find a creative outlet in the creation of the digital models - clearly the opportunity is there for the right people.  I'm not sure that this is any different in principle than learning how to hand cut dovetails.  But after a person has learned the process of creating the models, then I would hope that they come back around to the larger goals of creating beautiful, useful things with one of the most wonderful materials around.

 

[greg mann]

I’ve been machining metal with CNC since 1976, but it was after 10,000 hours of manual work; lathe, mill, grinders, files, emory cloth. When I first realized I could program a toolpath, push a button, and close the door I was sold. No more dodging hot chips off the lathe and dealing with the ones I couldn’t that found their way under my collar. Getting the most out of any machine, including CNC is more art than is commonly realized but it is different than hand work for sure. It is a great part of why I started down the woodworking path, to get back to using my hands to guide the instruments at hand.

That said,I use a track saw and a Domino in my work, and I certainly don’t mind the bumper guards on my Rotex. I don’t think I have 10,000 hours left to devote to mastering the truly hand-crafted skills. I love my hand planes but they won’t keep me from using my jointer or planer. It’s all relative. My most talented apprentice ever, who has embraced the digital world like no other, still has asked me to teach him how to cut threads on an engine lathe. One can live in both worlds nicely.

 

[ChuckM]

I wouldn't consider CNC per se as woodworking as I wouldn't the use of a hammer as woodworking. But CNC can be part of a tool in woodworking, like any other machines or hand tools. If nothing else  is used other than a CNC machine and lumber in creating a build, I would call it automated woodworking. People can then tell no woodworking skills in the traditional sense are involved in making that piece.

 

[egmiii]

I think the short answer is, it depends.

We are all here because we share the joy of woodworking. But how woodworking brings us joy, is highly personal and unique to the individual. For some the calming nature of quietly running a hand plane along a board might relieve the stress from an otherwise loud and fast paced lifestyle. Others may enjoy the engineering challenge of screw, nail, and glue free joinery. Some might enjoy the limitless customization and design opportunities. And lets not forget many use the trade to put food on the table and a roof over their head. Is a CNC woodworking? Well, that depends upon what woodworking means to you.

 

[grbmds]

The short answer for me is “No.”

 

[peter halle]

My answer would be "It depends."  My opinion is that if all the work is done via CNC then it is "Manufacturing."  If it is used as a tool and then there are other operations done via other non automated machines then it is only a part of the process of "Woodworking."

By example:  Ikea manufacturers.  John Smith who only uses his CNC for part of his furniture business is woodworking.

Peter