Is it possible to buy a NEW Festool?

[mdavis]

My conclusion from this is that most of you - however representative of the Festool population - don't care about getting equipment that is either used or shipment damaged/worn.

I do.

That is totally fine, to each their own, I still stand by my feedback to Festool:
a.) you can engineer the systainers that can ship w/o marking up the product...it is possible...
b.) you can seal the systainers, at least everyone knows whether it was opened or not at that point. transparency is good. ...and how can this be a bad thing?
c.) you could record - and report via the app - the hours run for each tool...lots of things do that. same for the batteries. battery cycle monitoring has many use cases.

Appreciate the responses, move on now,
-mark

 

[Michael Kellough]

For the last few years all of my Festool purchases have been from the Festool Recon site. Everything I've received so far has looked better than the tool you received.

Even though the areas you highlight in the photos look like dust accretions rather than abrasions they shouldn't be there. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect better.

That said, it doesn't take much use for dust and scuffs to become part of the tool. That's why I've been choosing recon, and the fact that I don't use any single tool enough to cause it to fail within three years, so the longer warranty with a new tool isn't worth much to me.

 

[derekcohen]

My conclusion from this is that most of you - however representative of the Festool population - don't care about getting equipment that is either used or shipment damaged/worn.

I do.

That is totally fine, to each their own, I still stand by my feedback to Festool:
a.) you can engineer the systainers that can ship w/o marking up the product...it is possible...
b.) you can seal the systainers, at least everyone knows whether it was opened or not at that point. transparency is good. ...and how can this be a bad thing?
c.) you could record - and report via the app - the hours run for each tool...lots of things do that. same for the batteries. battery cycle monitoring has many use cases.

Appreciate the responses, move on now,
-mark

Hi Mark

i cannot say whether the replies you have received here are representative of either the forum or Festool users. The underlying issue, as I understand, is that the satisfaction of purchasing a fine tool has been sullied by the (probably) travel wear with which it arrived. I think that many here understand that, and their remarks were aimed at soothing your hurt. I'd like to try to do this another way ...

I also expect that Festool users, not just because they make Porsche-level tools, but because they have Porsche-price tools, have higher expectations than most woodworkers. That you drive a Porsche says to me that you are a discerning buyer. For what it is worth, I am a Porsche driver as well, also appreciate quality tools - not simply because they are prestigious, but because they are quality. It would be easy for me, being on the perfectionistic side of the line, to be upset by every little scratch and dent. I've learned to live with these as I reframe them as badges of use. I look after my tools (and my car, which is a 2002 Boxster S), and all are maintained to the best level possible, and belie their true age. I have just spent the past few days servicing all my machines (mostly Hammer) and now move to serving all my hand tools (I have a LOT). There is pleasure in doing this ... even if I know that the shine and sharpen will only last a short time. Fortunately this level of effort is only once or twice a year at most. I build a lot of furniture with my tools, have done for for at least three decades, and they all carry the scars of battle. Sometimes, when I see them, I am reminded of my best buddy who will not take a new item out of its packaging for at least a year for fear of losing its perfection. He misses out a lot. I am not averse to purchasing used items, if this makes it affordable, as long as they have been looked after. Age does not come into this - I have 20-year-old Festo and 30-year-old Elu - I just appreciate quality and good design. A few scuff marks does not detract from this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Cheese]

Well at this point I think the direction of this thread should orient towards the discussion of Swiss, German and French mechanical watches. Because of the parallel aspects, that'd certainly be interesting.

However, back to the subject at hand, I can't but think that a "sealed" Systainer may not prevent the items from floating around inside, thus while the Systainer is sealed, the individual items are still able to bounce around inside and become scuffed. So the question is ...are scuffed items sealed in a Systainer any better or worse than scuffed items in an un-sealed Systainer? I'd venture the opinion that scuffed items in a sealed Systainer, will still not pass the muster for some individuals.

That's the reason that Bob Marino got it so right when he opened each Systainer and inserted bubble-wrap inside to prevent the movement of any individual item before shipping the Systainer.

 

[tjbnwi]

If we’re going to get into watches, we have to start here;

Patek Philippe Henry Graves Supercomplication - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Greatest Collectors of All Time: James Ward Packard – American Industrialist And Highly Competitive Discerning Collector - Worn & Wound

James Ward Packard (1863–1928) was a prominent American industrialist, inventor, and watch collector. Best known as the founder of the Packard Motor Car Company, which manufactured some of the most luxurious automobiles of the early 20th century, Packard was also an avid horology enthusiast and...

wornandwound.com

The Fake Rivalry That Created the World’s Most Expensive Timepiece | SJX Watches

The myth of Henry Graves Jr. vs James Ward Packard.

watchesbysjx.com

 

[luvmytoolz]

Well at this point I think the direction of this thread should orient towards the discussion of Swiss, German and French mechanical watches. Because of the parallel aspects, that'd certainly be interesting.

No watch discussion would be complete without a nod to George Daniels, inventor of the greatest advance to watchmaking in over 200 years since Abraham Breguet, and he gave it away to be universally adopted!

The co-axial escapement!

If you can find the doco's about him, and his only protege, Roger Smith, they're an absolute treat for watch fiends! I highly recommend "The Watchmakers Apprentice" if your streamer has it.

A couple of George's books, likewise for any mechanical watch aficionados, "Watchmaking" and "The Art of Breguet" are both fascinating and incredibly detailed.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Found an online copy of "The Watchmakers Apprentice":

 

[mino]

Well at this point I think the direction of this thread should orient towards the discussion of Swiss, German and French mechanical watches. Because of the parallel aspects, that'd certainly be interesting.

However, back to the subject at hand, I can't but think that a "sealed" Systainer may not prevent the items from floating around inside, thus while the Systainer is sealed, the individual items are still able to bounce around inside and become scuffed. So the question is ...are scuffed items sealed in a Systainer any better or worse than scuffed items in an un-sealed Systainer? I'd venture the opinion that scuffed items in a sealed Systainer, will still not pass the muster for some individuals.

That's the reason that Bob Marino got it so right when he opened each Systainer and inserted bubble-wrap inside to prevent the movement of any individual item before shipping the Systainer.

.. and, relevant to this thread, factually 'contaminated' the tools by touching them in a non-sterile way. Sure, OP would have been happy as he would have been unaware of the source of the packaging unless diggin-in, being 'duped' in his view probably ..

Unfortunately one cannot satisfy all at all times on this, irrespective of the expenditure/effort expended - I for one would be pissed if this meant my upcoming MFKC went €20 more due to such /to me superfluous/ care .. or that I cannot get an accessory or other as the dealer is unable to pull it from a tool set .. come to think of it, they would probably not carry that expensive toolset at all in such a scenario.

---
For those unaware, the Festool prouds itself on being able to ship tools without any sacrificial packaging to dealers. This is one of the original big eco-points of the Systainer concept introduced back in the 1990s. Then almost all tools shipped in either discardable boxes or mutually-incompatible ones people still discarded. Festool did this full two decades before the 'ECO craze' came about so I do not see them changing this when their pioneering work turned mainstream, almost all tool makes having a 'systainer-ish' platform of their own.

 

[Michael Kellough]

In the states Systainers are shipped in recyclable/disposable cardboard boxes, whether there is a tool in the Sys or not.
Otherwise the Systainers would be substantially marked up if not worse.

 

[onocoffee]

That's the reason that Bob Marino got it so right when he opened each Systainer and inserted bubble-wrap inside to prevent the movement of any individual item before shipping the Systainer.

I entered the Welt von Festool much later than all of you and have only heard Bob's name mentioned. If I recall, he was the first dealer/distributor in the USA? And it sounds like he offered white glove service back then.

I think that's an important aspect - if that's important to you - to find a dealer whom you can work with that offers a high level of attention and service. I've bought a lot of tools at places like Home Depot and Lowes, as well as from individual sellers, but when it comes to Festool, I like to buy them from my local dealer. I'm lucky because my local dealer is really great - lots of stock that they turn over regularly, weekly shipments from Festool and they'll help me hunt down any part from the EKAT catalog - and bring it in.

When purchasing online, it's more of a commodity trade. I give the vendor money, they send me the product. There's no relationship being built there. I'm just an account number in their system - and whether it's Festool, Porsche or Patek Philippe, it's still a digital transaction and I'm mainly just another random internet denizen.

There's all sorts of dealers out there. Some with fastidious attention to detail, some less so. Others zip-tie their systainers to protect the contents. Some dealers seem like they couldn't care less that you dropped in that day and leave you be. Others want to walk you through their showroom. The point is, you just need to find the dealer that's right for you.

As for myself, if there were some white chalky residue on the new tool, I'd be inquisitive. What is it indicative of? If I taste it, is it numbing? Can I put it in my nose? But unless there were other signs of issues (including wear and use), I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. However, if there were bits of actual sawdust and other detritus from use, I'd have a concern. Not necessarily that the tool wouldn't be up to scratch, but more because I paid full price for a tool that had been used. I'm open to buying a demo tool from a dealer, because it would still have the warranty. But I expect to buy it at a discount.

 

[nclemmons]

I entered the Welt von Festool much later than all of you and have only heard Bob's name mentioned. If I recall, he was the first dealer/distributor in the USA? And it sounds like he offered white glove service back then.

I think that's an important aspect - if that's important to you - to find a dealer whom you can work with that offers a high level of attention and service. I've bought a lot of tools at places like Home Depot and Lowes, as well as from individual sellers, but when it comes to Festool, I like to buy them from my local dealer. I'm lucky because my local dealer is really great - lots of stock that they turn over regularly, weekly shipments from Festool and they'll help me hunt down any part from the EKAT catalog - and bring it in.

When purchasing online, it's more of a commodity trade. I give the vendor money, they send me the product. There's no relationship being built there. I'm just an account number in their system - and whether it's Festool, Porsche or Patek Philippe, it's still a digital transaction and I'm mainly just another random internet denizen.

There's all sorts of dealers out there. Some with fastidious attention to detail, some less so. Others zip-tie their systainers to protect the contents. Some dealers seem like they couldn't care less that you dropped in that day and leave you be. Others want to walk you through their showroom. The point is, you just need to find the dealer that's right for you.

As for myself, if there were some white chalky residue on the new tool, I'd be inquisitive. What is it indicative of? If I taste it, is it numbing? Can I put it in my nose? But unless there were other signs of issues (including wear and use), I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. However, if there were bits of actual sawdust and other detritus from use, I'd have a concern. Not necessarily that the tool wouldn't be up to scratch, but more because I paid full price for a tool that had been used. I'm open to buying a demo tool from a dealer, because it would still have the warranty. But I expect to buy it at a discount.

Chip with ToolNirvana also does an amazing job of packaging his tools. Both bubblewrap inside as well as on the exterior and he uses extra strength cardboard boxes for shipment as well...

Toolnirvana.com is out of Chicago area. Great people and fast shipping!

 

[mino]

In the states Systainers are shipped in recyclable/disposable cardboard boxes, whether there is a tool in the Sys or not.
Otherwise the Systainers would be substantially marked up if not worse.

At the time Systainers came, it was usual for companies /like Festool/ to do their own distribution, using their own trucks/drivers to touch-base with their dealers as phone-only communication was not ideal before the internet times. For many years pre-internet-etail, they shipped tools to most dealers this way, just in Systainers on palettes.

These days it is different, but for pretty much all major dealers /in Europe/, they would still get whole pallets of systainer-packaged tools along with empty systainers shipped to them normally, say on a weekly basis. Commonly the spare parts would be stored in empty systainers to utilise the space. All a pretty neat/efficient system that gets them discounts on such orders.

This is slowly moving away with the prevalence of e-tail, but even there the bigger folks are on a pallet-size shipment model as it is cheaper, making them competitive in EU where fixed pricing was outlawed /and thus most brick stores were closed to never come back/.

I do understand there is really no standard universally-returnable palette like the Euro-palette is in US, but over here literally the only waste in their original logistics system was/is the shrink-wrap + edges around the pallets, plus the bottom cardboard below the systainers. Most other toolmakers with tool-in-toolbox setups do the same. The toolsbox is the shipping box, at most with some shrink-wrap or thin cardboard to protect against scratches.

 

[RustE]

Well at this point I think the direction of this thread should orient towards the discussion of Swiss, German and French mechanical watches. Because of the parallel aspects, that'd certainly be interesting.
[snip]

Well, at least until we get into the decay of Paneri quality and the many ways in which to get attention from a Rolex AD.

 

[RustE]

Chip with ToolNirvana also does an amazing job of packaging his tools. Both bubblewrap inside as well as on the exterior and he uses extra strength cardboard boxes for shipment as well...
Toolnirvana.com is out of Chicago area. Great people and fast shipping!

This is my experience with ToolNirvana too. Granted the transit time from Chicago to northeast Ohio is very short.

 

[RustE]

The guy I talked to in one of the Hartville Hardware stores told me they sell their used stuff on eBay, so I'd be careful with that. -mark

This is mostly true. Damaged and returned items go to their eBay clearance outlet.
However, in the past some dealers sold new Festool items directly through their eBay storefronts. My recollection is FestoolUSA put an end to this practice.

 

[Cheese]

Well, at least until we get into the decay of Paneri quality and the many ways in which to get attention from a Rolex AD.

Ya, never been a fan of Panerai, they're always too large and may work well on Sylvester Stallone with 8" wrists but for the rest of us...not so much. They do have an interesting history though that is the real deal. and history is part of the intrigue.

 

[Vondawg]

I just have to wonder… how many times that GT was test driven…‘don’t she purr tho’