It drives me up the wall.... (the value of a product)

[WarnerConstCo.]

When someone sees the price of a Festool and thinks they (Festool) or someone who owns it is on crack for paying that much for a power tool.

Yet they constantly complain about their Dewalt, Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee, or what ever else they have that falls apart after a year or so.

I guess we have lost sight of the value of what I consider an heirloom tool. 

Remember the old PC belt sanders, routers and the other tools that were made of almost all metal parts and are still in good working condition 30+ years later?

When did the only thing that matters turn into the initial cost of something and not it's service life and how soon it will end up in a landfill.

One example from me is my Colt router.  I got it free with the boat anchor of a miter saw I bought 4 years ago.

It was a nice little router for about 4 months then stuff started loosening up every time I used it.  Now it is almost an inconvenience when I have to use it.

I have even seen people replace the bearings in them with one's that cost 1/2 as much as the tool and they still only last for a year or less.

This is why my power tools are Festool's and my machinery is from an era when company's made a product to last a lifetime and then some, because they wanted you

to be confident in making your next purchase for a different machine from them.

Thanks Festool for not taking the easy route and trying to compete on a price point alone.  I know it is not easy to do, as I refuse to compete with people on my prices.

I may loose some work but, the work I get to do is worth it in more ways then monetary.

Peace out. [cool]

 

[mouppe]

I see it all the time. People who don't know the difference between the cost and value of something.

 

[Frank Pellow]

I see it all the time. People who don't know the difference between the cost and value of something.

Right you are.  That's what keeps places like Wal Mart in business. 

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Darcy, I can certainly appreciate your rant.

It's very frustrating from my perspective as well but I have to admit that I have been one of those people. The ones who buy on price rather than value. Not nearly as much now as when I was younger, I contribute that to wisdom.  [wink]

I wish there was a way to get more people to give our 30-day guarantee a try. To take a Festool for a test drive. It's easy to be a skeptic, a naysayer, a critic when you haven't even touched the product or put it to the test. If you still don't like it or think it's worth the price, THEN say all you want about it. The most anti-Festool comments come from those who have never put their hands on one.

Some things are worth the premium. But each person has to choose that perfect equilibrium between price and value. Festool's not for everyone. But it's surely for more people than give us a fair evaluation.

The reality is that we live in a society taught to buy on price alone.

I wish there was a way to get people to give Festool a fair shake. I'm open to suggestions...  [popcorn]

 

[JLB builders LLC]

I have a Stainless Steel Rockwell 8 1/2 circular saw that my Grandfather got many moons ago. Starts up like a table saw and runs smoooooth. I know it has to be older than me. 41 yrs

Als have an aluminum bodied electric door planer that is older than me and still runs like new.

I will spend the extra cash if I know or think it is going to hold up and last. A good quality tool helps to do a good quality job and in turn will make me more money down the road.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I wish there was a way to get people to give Festool a fair shake. I'm open to suggestions...  [popcorn]

Get me a Sprinter and I can hit the road with my well used Festool collection and spread the word.  I could be like the Snap-on guy.

It works for the religion people and those kirby vacuum guys.. [big grin]

A huge hurdle is the lack of availability of the tools for people to touch see and feel.

If I had never seen one, I would have to drive 2 hours to go somewhere that has them.

 

[honeydoman]

yep i agree tools that last are far better than cheep ones... its funny cuz I have that same router, 3 of them just for round overs etc.. and every one of then I have issues with all of them..

I think one of the issues that I have seen over and over again at probably  10-15 stores that I have been in that sell festool, is the stores help who makes $8-$10 bucks an hour and who could never afford a festool pass on that knowledge to prospects....  prospect says oh what are festools.... store clerk.. oh they are very expensive.... customer  oh.

I have heard those words (or similar) over and over again.. plus some of the stores have the festools stashed off someplace and have huge displays of bosch, dewalt, mil etc..

so once the stores learn how to train on sales value and not cost then that will help... that is the million dollar question !!!  I have been in stores and have closed sales for them as the sales person was lost.. and I took over and the customer would walk out with festools  many times... several times with $2,500 -$4,000 sales...  just from me helping them and my knowledge, and I am glad to do it as I love festools and I am an excellent sales person, afterall I sold insurance for 17 years.

so thats my story and I am sticking to it !!!

 

[greenMonster]

I wish there was a way to get more people to give our 30-day guarantee a try. To take a Festool for a test drive.
I wish there was a way to get people to give Festool a fair shake. I'm open to suggestions...  [popcorn]

easy, more demos

 

[JoshG]

What's interesting is that if you look at woodworking magazines from 15 years ago many of the brand name power tools were significantly more expensive than they are today.  For example, in the 1996 Tool Buyer's Guide from American Woodworker, the DeWalt DW615 (1.5 hp/8 amp) plunge router is listed at $300.  Taking inflation into account, this router should cost approximately $430 today.  Considering that the similar size Festool 1010 costs $385 today, it seems that the Festool is a bargain.

 

[BJM9818]

Back in 2005-2006 I first discovered Festool when my PC 6" sander was getting tired. I looked at the Rotex and almost died. What kind of a moron would spend $440 on a 6" sander. I never even got as far as to actually  read any of the info on it.  After walking by it a bunch of times at my local woodcraft, one day I actually grabbed a catalog.  A few months later I took the plunge with a Rotex/Midi combo and was amazed at how it performed vs the old PC.  Changed my outlook completely. While I still am lacking a few Festool items( who isnt)  One thing us clear....I won't even consider looking at another tool brand if Festool makes it.

  Festool or no tool!

 

[rxe]

What's interesting is that if you look at woodworking magazines from 15 years ago many of the brand name power tools were significantly more expensive than they are today.  For example, in the 1996 Tool Buyer's Guide from American Woodworker, the DeWalt DW615 (1.5 hp/8 amp) plunge router is listed at $300.  Taking inflation into account, this router should cost approximately $430 today.  Considering that the similar size Festool 1010 costs $385 today, it seems that the Festool is a bargain. 

Inflation is the heart of the problem.  The best example is with "white goods" - washing machines and the like.  In the 70s, a washing machine was an expensive thing, costing about £200.  That £200 would fill the tank of your car about 20 times, it could feed you for 2 months or you could get 5 nights in a half decent hotel with it.    People are still buying washing machines for £200, and complaining that they are made of rubbish, and break after a year.  Today that £200 will fill the car twice (I'm in the UK....), feed you for 2 weeks and get a night an a bit in a decent hotel.    So a "decent" washing machine costs about 1000 - and lasts as well as the ones in the 70s. 

Same with power tools.    My first mitre saw (DeWalt) in the late 90s was about £300.  Yes, you can get cheap chop saws for £100 and they are made of cheese.  Allowing for inflation, that DeWalt should cost about £600 today - so the Kapex at £1000 doesn't seem so bad, especially when you consider it is a much better saw.

 

[upscale]

yep i agree tools that last are far better than cheep ones... its funny CZ I have that same router, 3 of them just for round overs etc.. and every one of then I have issues with all of them.

The problem is that a lot of people don't know the old tools are reliable or have been conditioned to think that NEW is better. For example, on another website I was selling a 40 year old B&D 4015 HD Finishing Sander and a 40 year old B&D Circular Saw. They work great. I was asking $30 a piece for them. No takers.

Just to be generous and to facilitate moving them out the door, I then offered them BOTH for the person that would bring me a Big Mac meal with fries and a drink. Know what? I've still had no takers. My only conclusion is that most people think they're junk. I'm at a loss to explain it.

The next thing that will happen is that someone will want me to pay them to take them away.
??? ???  ???

Let's see what happens here. I'll offer both tools for the same deal. Pick up in Toronto, not willing to ship them anywhere. Pictures available on request. Anyone interested?

 

[Kev]

yep i agree tools that last are far better than cheep ones... its funny CZ I have that same router, 3 of them just for round overs etc.. and every one of then I have issues with all of them.

The problem is that a lot of people don't know the old tools are reliable or have been conditioned to think that NEW is better. For example, on another website I was selling a 40 year old B&D 4015 HD Finishing Sander and a 40 year old B&D Circular Saw. They work great. I was asking $30 a piece for them. No takers.

Just to be generous and to facilitate moving them out the door, I then offered them BOTH for the person that would bring me a Big Mac meal with fries and a drink. Know what? I've still had no takers. My only conclusion is that most people think they're junk. I'm at a loss to explain it.

The next thing that will happen is that someone will want me to pay them to take them away.
??? ???  ???

Let's see what happens here. I'll offer both tools for the same deal. Pick up in Toronto, not willing to ship them anywhere. Pictures available on request. Anyone interested?

Toronto is a bit far for me!

Try advertising on ebay with "vintage", "collectable" and/or "antique" in the description.

 

[pugilato]

The truth as I see it is that you have to earn your way into buying festools... when I was in my 30s, with a growing family, pampers and baby food expenses, festools would have been out of the question.  You can advertise and promote all you want, but most people will not buy a Cadillac when they're on a Volkswagen budget (that there shows my age).

 

[GhostFist]

I too was a naysayer at first. The first time I saw a festool display I pointed out to my mrs. how ridiculously over priced they were, I had never so much as touched one before. Years later, continual frustration with disposable tools, as they're made now I gave FESTOOL a serious look and now it's very difficult to look away. For me now, there is a BETTER value in a product that is going to last and be continually reliable than something I'm gonna have to replace in a year or constantly have to fidget with. I buy a tool because I need to use it and being half insane I tend to research as much as i can about a product to see what's going to best serve my needs, and it's not just power tools it's everything involved with my work.

A while back a fellow at work was asking me about my drills and i gave him the run down, he made a comment like "gotta love your toys", I said "they're not toys they're tools" he goes on "well i call them toys", "I just take my work more seriously than you do I guess then" I say. It was a bit of a tongue and cheek half joking convo in context but in a way it does say something about how people look at their work and the tools they use to do it.

 

[NoBreyner]

Some of my first tools three years ago were Ryobi just to have a little of everything.  When I need a sander I got the Porter Cable 5" sander.  When I needed a router I went with the Porter Cable non plunge router, when I needed a plunge router I picked up a Skil plunge router.  In the end I could have picked up a 1400 series Festool router for the combined price of the two that I have, and I don't use the Skil plunge router that often, however I do understand the practicality of the plunge action.  It was only three months ago when I bought my first and far from my last Festool.  I bought the CT Mini and mounted a dust deputy to 1/2" plywood and attached it to the top to save on buying bags in bulk.  My next two tools came on the same day the Rotex 90 and the CXS.  I rely on these tools the most along with my drill press and am perfectly happy to replace everything with festool if I can.  My next tool will be the TS 55, but that's a few months down the road.  I want the MFT/3 to expand the 55's ability, but cannot justify spending $600 on a table.  I may get it anyway, but I want to look into a home made MFT with built in sortainer.

 

[peter halle]

One of my customers came to me about a month ago and asked "What is Festool?" after seeing my license plates.  I asked him if he had an hour  [scared].  I asked him about the dust levels in his condo for the weeks after he had his renovation done by another contractor versus the dust level after my recent work.  He simply said that there wasn't any dust after my work.  I explained that was Festool and then went on to explain.

A couple of days ago the same guy came up to me to tell that both he and his wife love to watch HGTV.  They had in turn just subscribed to HGTV magazine and have received the premier issue.  He had remembered our talk and thought that I might like the last line in this interview:  HGTV Magazine Interview

Peter

 

[upscale]

He had remembered our talk and thought that I might like the last line in this interview:  HGTV Magazine Interview

Now a bunch of low class carpenters are going to make a run on Festool tracksaws so they can pass themselves off as high class.  :

 

[Vindingo]

Now a bunch of low class carpenters are going to make a run on Festool tracksaws so they can pass themselves off as high class.  :

crap... I think I may have just been found out!  [tongue]

 

[Vindingo]

I was on a jobsite last week and the GC kept admiring my TS55.  He had no idea what Festool was so I took the time to show him the saw and the guide rail system.  He was in love!

"Those must cost a fortune"  When I told him that the TS was only about $500 he was shocked- in a good way!  He understood the value of good tools and he told me he was fed up with the junk he kept buying.  He did mentioned that if he was to buy one, he would have to hide it from his crew because they abuse his tools.   

I am curious to know, how many people have a crew of 3 or more using their tools? 

I get the impression that a lot of Festool users are 1 or 2 man operations mostly doing finish work.  The guys with tools that break often toss their worm drive on the ground after cutting plywood, or mix mortar with their 14v cordless Dewalt drill.  For the most part, they are framers and treat their tools like crap.  I would imagine that if you put Festools in their hands, they would find a way to break them too!