It drives me up the wall.... (the value of a product)

[Dan Clark]

Festool tools are typically high quality. And most of them work well as a system. You can choose which perspective to view them. (After all, it is you money.). That said, if you view them from only one perspective, you're missing the boat. Both are true.

The TS55 is a great saw. But it's made to work on a guide rail.  Which can be attached to an MFT to make decent table saw. And the TS55 can be connected to a high quality vac like a CT26. Of course you need a hose that fits on both ends. And to ensure you don't get zapped by static electricity, the hose should be antistatic. And the saw is designed to take advantage of that hose. Same goes for the vac.  So...

If any part of that system is not high quality, both the system and the pieces lose value. And if any piece does not work well on the system, again the system and the pieces lose value. Who cares if your saw, hose, and vac are super-high quality if the hose ends don't fit in the saw and vac ports.  Who cares if the system is perfectly integrated if the saw doesn't cut well, or the vac doesn't have enough power or fails after six months!?!

I spent years using garbage tools and tools that worked poorly as a system. I no longer have the time or patience to deal with this idiocy. Now my tools have to be high quality AND work well together.

Dan.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Except there is no DC port on the drills. [big grin]

There's no claw on them either but that doesn't keep you from using them as hammers... Just sayin'.  [poke]

You can still use a hammer with a broken claw. [big grin]

I think I scared my one battery back into working right too. [big grin]

 

[bruegf]

In most cases, as soon as I hear the word "system", I immediately think I'm going to be committed to that system and it's going to cost me lots of money.

And what part of that statement hasn't been true for the Festool system?   How many of you that have had a Festool product for more than a year or two haven't bought several more. 

My initial purchase was the vac and the sander and I sat in the store for a couple hours before actually buying, trying to convince myself it was worth the cost.  By now I have to take off my shoes and use my toes to count how many Festool products I own.

Fred

 

[VictorL]

Yeah, you pay more for cheap crap. Here is song about cheap flight
Enjoy!



VictorL

 

[tiralie]

I never understood the "Festool System" approach. I also believe that it is a negative for a lot of potential first time buyers.

If I look back at my first purchase I would have to agree somewhat. I wanted to be able to use my old PC router on the LR32 system to drill shelf holes. I couldn't mount the PC router on the LR32 plate so started my Festool purchases. After using the 1010 I thought it was so good I bought more tools.
I am sure you know the rest of the story.

The negative as I see it is, a sales person tells a potential first time Festool buyer about the Festool System.

This seems to be a real problem as has been pointed out in other posts. Poorly trained retailers and staff who don't understand and have never used the products.
I must say I was very lucky when I first went to purchase the LR32 . He (Shawn at Atlas) showed me a lot of the capabilities but in the end he let me try to retro fit the PC router to the base plate.
Tim

Honestly, the word "system" makes me want to run for the hills.

Maybe it's just us NA's that just don't like buying into a "system", I wonder if this is true for our European friends?
Tim

 

[upscale]

In most cases, as soon as I hear the word "system", I immediately think I'm going to be committed to that system and it's going to cost me lots of money.

And what part of that statement hasn't been true for the Festool system?    How many of you that have had a Festool product for more than a year or two haven't bought several more.   

That's not the point. *Past* experience with "systems" means you're going need more of that system to benefit from its capabilities and it's going to cost you more. The "need" and the "cost" is what makes people wary.

 

[greg mann]

When I first read Darcy's original post I really had to chuckle. My wife and I had just come home from buying a new refrigerator. I had walked out thinking to myself that I could have gotten out of there spending a third of what I did. But, we had looked at energy ratings, shelf construction, drawer slide construction, etc., and had slowly worked our way up from mid-priced units to the better (best) ones. It reminded me of a friend years ago looking for a new sound system. The salesman had asked him what his price range was; how much he was willing to spend. After looking at some equipment he asked the salesman about some stuff on the other side of the aisle, to which the salesman said,

"You don't want to go over there."
"Why?"
"Because once you go over there you won't want to come back here and all of those cost more than you want to spend."
"Let's go over there anyway."
"Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you."

Of course we all know how that ended up. The point is that once you realize the value of quality you begin to understand the difference between price and cost.

 

[Dan Clark]

In most cases, as soon as I hear the word "system", I immediately think I'm going to be committed to that system and it's going to cost me lots of money.

And what part of that statement hasn't been true for the Festool system?    How many of you that have had a Festool product for more than a year or two haven't bought several more.   

That's not the point. *Past* experience with "systems" means you're going need more of that system to benefit from its capabilities and it's going to cost you more. The "need" and the "cost" is what makes people wary.

Upscale,

There's a massive difference between "need" and "want".  You don't "need" to buy a Festool vac to see the benefits of a Domino.  You can get an adapter and use any one of several vacs.  OTOH, when you see the features and quality of the Domino, and then start understanding the benefits of Festool tools and how they work together, you start seeing the benefits of the system.  I.e. you don't "need" the Festool system, you "want" the Festool system. 

And you don't "need" to buy all Festool.  The vast majority of Festool owners (including me) use other tools also.  OTOH, after buying Festool tools, many of us (including me) start buying better quality tools of all kinds and try to fit them together as a system.  For example...

I just got a Woodpeckers router table to use with my Triton router.  The Festool D27 hose fits into the Triton's dust port and the Festool D50 hose fits into the router table fence's dust port.    Using the Festool "Y" connector, I get dust control above and below the router table.  The router and table are not Festool.  But a key buying criteria for me was their ability to fit in with my Festool "system".  I.e., I did not NEED to go with this router and table combo, I WANTED this combo.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[upscale]

There's a massive difference between "need" and "want".   You don't "need" to buy a Festool vac to see the benefits of a Domino. 

I understand perfectly what you're saying. I'm only trying to point out that "need" and "want" coupled with the word "system", largely means something different to the non Festool user. For the Festool user and owner, "system" has a different context.

 

[semenza]

There's a massive difference between "need" and "want".   You don't "need" to buy a Festool vac to see the benefits of a Domino. 

I understand perfectly what you're saying. I'm only trying to point out that "need" and "want" coupled with the word "system", largely means something different to the non Festool user. For the Festool user and owner, "system" has a different context.

Yes, in my experience the word 'system'  is generally attached to things (woodworking or otherwise) that require the whole system to work  as advertised, and often not do all it is supposed to do very well.

Same reason I am not a fan of 'combination' items, IMO those tend to do everything on a compromised level. EX- "all season tires". Yes, they are an all season compromise. They don't work in snow ( I mean real snow, not slop on a road) as well as true snow tires. Or a combination blade.... it doesn't cross cut as well as a cross cut blade or rip as well as a rip blade.

That is what is different about the Festool system. The tools are designed to be excellent as stand alone tools , and then also work as a system. I think they need to be demonstrated as stand alone tools, let people see how good they are, then let them discover the benefit of the system.

Seth

 

[Sean7a]

Yeah, you pay more for cheap crap. Here is song about cheap flight
Enjoy!



VictorL

Thanks for the morning laugh Victor, that was great!

 

[bellchippy]

Yes very funny  [big grin]