It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?

[Job and Knock]

Something I haven't seen mentioned here, space considerations. I used to run a shop with a 3.2 metre (11ft) Altendorf F-45 at one end. We were breaking-down 3070 x 2107 "jumbo" sheets quite a bit with that saw to feed into our CNC PTP and it required something like 26 feet length x 20 feet width (2 x length of longest board by 1 x length of longest crosscut + 7ft for RH extension tables) to load and use because the operator also needs a bit of room. Even the 2.5 metre (8ft) machine that replaced needed a foot print of about (from memory) 20 feet x 15 feet. You can't impinge on this footprint without compromising the safe and effective use of the saw. Having owned half size sliders (i.e. those with 4ft tables) before that I'd say that they compromise on accuracy because you are still going to have to full length rip sheets against the rip fence (which sort of defeats the object of a slider unless you are ony doing small scale stuff). I'd also point out that whilst full-size sliders are great for breaking down full size sheets the walk around that carraige overhang at the front of the saw when doing repetitive rips of timber off the rip fence quickly becomes a chore to be avoided

 

[HAXIT]

Maybe Fimal concept 350 could be the answer? [big grin]

 

[Lbob131]

Indeed. Let the machine  do the walking.
Or one of these from mafell...

 

[Paul G]

Indeed. Let the machine  do the walking.
Or one of these from mafell...

That's pretty cool  [thumbs up], though I'm sure the price would scare me a bit

 

[Lbob131]

My 2014 mafell catalogue  shows  it at £2179 inc VAT.
And I think their still  close to that today.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Seems many don't want to understand that people simply get pleasure from using good tools [sad] I couldn't imagine someone on a car forum telling you that you only need a bicycle when you ask to discuss buying either a BMW or a Merc [blink]

I understand the pleasure from using nice tools.  I believe many on here share that understanding.  Dovetail is asking a practical, logical question.  Having a garage full of nice tools that aren't used isn't a good use of money.  I should know.  Perhaps he is helping you manage resources?

 

[Kev]

I understand the pleasure from using nice tools.  I believe many on here share that understanding.  Dovetail is asking a practical, logical question.  Having a garage full of nice tools that aren't used isn't a good use of money.  I should know.  Perhaps he is helping you manage resources?

[member=8843]Kodi Crescent[/member] with all respect, this is not a financial advice forum. This "need v's want" theme comes up almost every time a seemingly non professional expresses a desire, rather than simply questioning usage specifics or offering advice relative to the questions asked.

This forum spans a wide range of tool user types, from tradesman that struggle to even afford their first Festool to people that are reasonably wealthy and enjoy the thought of performing the odd piece of craft with the finest tools.

Veiling questions with palpable negativity and derision isn't very friendly and it's extremely obvious that the OP finds pleasure in procuring and ultimately using quality, safe equipment. Whether time permits frequent or infrequent use of the tools is not our business.

If you want to question "what is a good use of money?" a separate topic may be smart - this thread is SS TS v's slider, not "I want a table saw ... should I get one?"

So, specifically ... as you asked the question of something I posted, Dovetail is not helping me manage resources and I have not requested his help and do not want it.

I share this in this thread as you asked the question of part of my post ... but if you want to discuss this further I suggest we take it offline via PM.

 

[ben_r_]

I have the Hammer N4400 as well and an A3-31 coming sometime next year and I still would and did go with the SawStop PCS 3HP 36" with the ICS mobile base and overarm dust collection.

 

[Kev]

I have the Hammer N4400 as well and an A3-31 coming sometime next year and I still would and did go with the SawStop PCS 3HP 36" with the ICS mobile base and overarm dust collection.

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member] curious ...

How do you use your saw and what sort of cuts are your most commonly making?

I see a lot of US table saw usage videos with hands in close to the blade .. hence fingers can fly !! I'm gravitating towards a slider because I plan every cut to ensure none of my body parts go near the sharp spinning bits and the slider helps me meet that objective. I'm probably much slowing in usage because of my approach .. but that's just me.

 

[ben_r_]

I have the Hammer N4400 as well and an A3-31 coming sometime next year and I still would and did go with the SawStop PCS 3HP 36" with the ICS mobile base and overarm dust collection.

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member] curious ...

How do you use your saw and what sort of cuts are your most commonly making?

I see a lot of US table saw usage videos with hands in close to the blade .. hence fingers can fly !! I'm gravitating towards a slider because I plan every cut to ensure none of my body parts go near the sharp spinning bits and the slider helps me meet that objective. I'm probably much slowing in usage because of my approach .. but that's just me.

Hey, as a hobbyist, we have the luxury of being able to take our time! Nothing against sliders, I just liked the the build quality, lower price and safety feature of the SawStop. Most of my cuts are short crosscuts and

 

[Job and Knock]

I see a lot of US table saw usage videos with hands in close to the blade .. hence fingers can fly !! I'm gravitating towards a slider because I plan every cut to ensure none of my body parts go near the sharp spinning bits and the slider helps me meet that objective.

How about learning to use push sticks properly and making most of your cuts with the riving knife and crown guard on? With 16in push sticks your hands should never be nearer the blade than about 12in. I keep reading (mainly from amateur woodworkers) about the "need" to see the cut line. Poppycock! There are very few cases where you need to see the cut line because the rip fence should be doing all the work for you. One of the few times I actually do need to see the cut line is when I'm doing a long scribe on something like skitings (baseboard), but even though I'm site based that's a very rare cut to make

 

[Kev]

[member=61727]Job and Knock[/member] sadly you really don't need to be that smart to learn how to use a push stick and watching a line after you've setup a saw properly for a cut is next to worthless, but you will still get people that believe they can do things more safely than "the other guy" .. table saw short cuts save time but significantly increase the likelihood of injury. It's a bit like not bothering with the seat belt because you're not going very far [sad]

 

[kevinculle]

I keep reading (mainly from amateur woodworkers) about the "need" to see the cut line. Poppycock! There are very few cases where you need to see the cut line because the rip fence should be doing all the work for you. One of the few times I actually do need to see the cut line is when I'm doing a long scribe on something like skitings (baseboard), but even though I'm site based that's a very rare cut to make

I agree there's generally no need to see the cut line for quality, but there sure is for safety.  If working on a tool with an exposed blade my eyes are focused on the blade during any cutting operation.  Important to make sure your body parts stay clear of the cut and, ripping with a table saw important to watch for signs of binding that could produce kickback.

 

[jeh]

I have the Hammer N4400 as well and an A3-31 coming sometime next year and I still would and did go with the SawStop PCS 3HP 36" with the ICS mobile base and overarm dust collection.

[member=58821]ben_r_[/member] curious ...

How do you use your saw and what sort of cuts are your most commonly making?

I see a lot of US table saw usage videos with hands in close to the blade .. hence fingers can fly !! I'm gravitating towards a slider because I plan every cut to ensure none of my body parts go near the sharp spinning bits and the slider helps me meet that objective. I'm probably much slowing in usage because of my approach .. but that's just me.

A slider or SawStop are your only choices. You can't go wrong either way.

 

[Job and Knock]

Important to make sure your body parts stay clear of the cut and, ripping with a table saw important to watch for signs of binding that could produce kickback.

But there's the rub, literally. If you use a "short" European style rip fence (which ends at the saw gullet) together with a riving knife there really is a low risk of kickback because the timber cannot end up binding between the blade and the rear of the (through) fence. You can still get pinching on the riving knife in a very few cases, but that is so rare that some woodworkers will never experience it. We rarely see the Biesmeyer-type through rip fence over here these days because we all know how much more dangerous they are and no European manufacturer supplies them on static equipment. But another thing to consider is this: when a kickback occurs the material can be shot backwards at you at a speed of 90 to 120mph. With the best will in the world neither you nor I have reactions quick enough to do anything when that occurs, believe me

As to the SawStop argument I'm unconvinced. 95% of what the SawStop is supposed to prevent can be avoided by adopting safer usage. But then I'm somewhat risk averse

 

[ben_r_]

As to the SawStop argument I'm unconvinced. 95% of what the SawStop is supposed to prevent can be avoided by adopting safer usage. But then I'm somewhat risk averse

It is also just the overall fit and finish of the saw. For me the safety feature was a nice to have, but not the main attraction to the saw. The saw is built nicer than any of the others I considered (Powermatic, Jet, Laguna, Delta, etc). That alone made me want to spend the extra amount on it.

 

[ChuckM]

No one really needs the protection of the SawStop's finger-saving feature, except those who can be cut by a spinning blade in an accident...and believe it or not, every day, the ten workers who experience tablesaw amputations are among those people.

Chuck

 

[Job and Knock]

...and believe it or not, every day, the ten workers who experience tablesaw amputations are among those people.

But how many of those people  were using proper push sticks? If you are using a table saw properly and safely your fingers never go that close to the saw blade. It's as simple as that.

 

[ChuckM]

I wish it were that simple!

Chuck

 

[Runhard]

Please keep the discussion going if you would like. I will be ordering a sawstop and in the future I plan to have a slider as well.

Thanks,

Daniel