Joining face frame wall cabinets

[Rick Herrick]

Looking for advice on proper way to arrange face frames and join together.  In the few I have done, I over hang the face frame by about 1/8" on the sides.  If you have a run of these (4 in next project), would you still put that space on the sides where they join?  If so, in my case, the actual cabinet would have 1/4" between.  I assume you just try to maintain that 1/4" going back to the wall.  I do use the Bessey face frame clamps to pull the faces together to join there. 

Are there other/better ways?

 

[tjbnwi]

Yes, leave the space.

If you are fabricating the cabinets, make this run as one unit.

Tom

 

[Sparktrician]

If you know that you're going to put up four cabinets and know that you'll never change the configuration once installed, why not just make up the four boxes to the exact size, hang them precisely, then make a single face frame to cover all four boxes?  It will make for a neater overall appearance, and if you need to do any scribing, you'll be able to do it all at once. 

 

[Rick Herrick]

Yes, leave the space.

If you are fabricating the cabinets, make this run as one unit.

Tom

Thanks Tom.  The plan is 4x 30" wide cabinets.  Are you saying make one 120" cabinet?  If so, I would never get it hung.

If you know that you're going to put up four cabinets and know that you'll never change the configuration once installed, why not just make up the four boxes to the exact size, hang them precisely, then make a single face frame to cover all four boxes?  It will make for a neater overall appearance, and if you need to do any scribing, you'll be able to do it all at once. 

Hey Willy.  I have thought of that but there is a 25% chance we will move in 2-3 years and my wife will want those cabinets wherever we move too.  The single face frame has always appealed to me though.  Not having those vertical lines between cabinets should look very nice.

 

[tjbnwi]

Yep, 120" cabinet, we hang ours on cleats. Longest one we've done one piece was just over 15'.

If you don't want to do a 120---2-60's?

Tom

 

[Michael Kellough]

Yep, 120" cabinet, we hang ours on cleats. Longest one we've done one piece was just over 15'.

If you don't want to do a 120---2-60's?

Tom

If you have 120”material a 120” cabinet makes a lot of sense but a 15 foot cabinet? We’re you able to get 16 foot material? If not, how did you overlap to make a solid structure?

 

[tjbnwi]

We can get 16’ maple for face frames.

Tom

 

[Oldwood]

I don't mind the look of face frame cabinets butted if the vertical frame members are kept narrow. It is very much a personal taste thing though.

We do mostly frameless, but we have  done a few inset face frame jobs. The one in the picture is a face frame kitchen with European hardware.

We held the verticals flush on the inside of the gables, so we did not need to shim the hardware.

 

[Rick Herrick]

Thats an impressive set of cabinets.  I would like to do some inset doors at some point.  I do understand and agree that the verticals need to be narrow.  The ones I recently done are 1 1/5" wide and even that, butted up, looks too big.  But I think I need to match the ones I already have in this room.

 

[Getmaverick]

Standard overhang on FF cabinets are 1/4". 1/8" you risk splitting out when you screw the together.

 

[Rick Herrick]

Standard overhang on FF cabinets are 1/4". 1/8" you risk splitting out when you screw the together.

Thanks for that.  I  just checked the ones I did last year and they were 1/4" vs 1/8".  Guess I got lucky.

 

[morts10n]

Oldwood...there are really tall baseplates for Blum hinges available now so you dont necessarily need to worry about shimming anymore

 

[tjbnwi]

When we do insets the rsailland stiles are 1-1/2" execpt the upper/wall cabinet to rail, it is 2". The 2" is to accomadate a riser, it finishes at 1-1/2" with the riser installed.

The white base with the cook top is just under 15', the black vanity is just over 13', the black tall with what will be glass doors is 12'ish.

The black vainty tower is just to show a fun door to make.....

We did have a 23' base with insets, we split a stile at 3/4-3/4, Dominos and screws make the seam pratically invisible. The unit was shot joined the separated for transport.

and yes, I'm getting to old to be moving these things....

Tom

 

[JeremyH.]

Screwing face frames together is pretty low risk if you pre-drill the whole way and align with clamps. However I agree that making one long cabinet/face is better. Face frame screwing is for when you order cabinets.

Get some T-jacks. Two people lift and then one sets the jacks. You can fine screw them into place. (Cabinet jacks are trash IMO). Although doing a cleat might be fine if the wall is flush-ish. 
https://www.amazon.com/T-Jak-TJ-104...B00007BHYO/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=t+jack&qid=1614533273&sr=8-3

 

[Mark Katz]

Take this with a grain of salt since I have never built face-frame cabinets (so far only frameless) and have never had to hang a run of them.

What if you built your cabinets individually at 30" as planned, then build a single face frame for the whole run but joined the face frame to the cabinets with removable fasteners (for example the domino connectors)? I you ever move and need a new configuration, you would just need to build a new face frame (or set of them) for your new setup. You might even be able to salvage parts of your original face frame for the new configuration.

This approach would require being pretty careful with the connector placement so everything fits together during the install but I think it is doable.

 

[Packard]

The 1/4" setback of the face frame allows for a couple of advantages over a flush version.

It allows for scribing to the wall.  It allows for unevenly plastered walls that might cause a gap in the front if it were flush.  And it allows for 1/4" plywood end panels.

When I build face frame cabinets, I place the pocket holes that hold the face frame on, on the outside of the cabinet.  I use through confirmats to clamp the sides to the tops and bottoms and through dowels for rigidity against racking.  It leaves the inside of the cabinet unblemished by fasteners and I cover exposed ends with a 1/4" plywood end panel. 

The trough dowels are stronger than blind dowels, and faster and easier to drill and insert. 

 

[Rick Herrick]

What if you built your cabinets individually at 30" as planned, then build a single face frame for the whole run but joined the face frame to the cabinets with removable fasteners (for example the domino connectors)? I you ever move and need a new configuration, you would just need to build a new face frame (or set of them) for your new setup. You might even be able to salvage parts of your original face frame for the new configuration.

Thanks Mark.  I have the Domino but have not worked up to connecters yet.  I would worry that the connecters might be too big for the face frame?  No experience there so not sure.

When I build face frame cabinets, I place the pocket holes that hold the face frame on, on the outside of the cabinet.  I use through confirmats to clamp the sides to the tops and bottoms and through dowels for rigidity against racking.  It leaves the inside of the cabinet unblemished by fasteners and I cover exposed ends with a 1/4" plywood end panel. 

Thanks Packard.  If I have 4x 30" cabinets, I can see how I could attach the face frame, via pocket holes along the perimeter, but what about the stiles between cabinets? 

 

[xedos]

Are there other/better ways?

If you're not doing inset doors, then why not use frameless / euro construction ?  Easier for sure, and in my opinion better.  Express you artistry and show you craftsmanship in the fronts.

 

[Rick Herrick]

If you're not doing inset doors, then why not use frameless / euro construction ?  Easier for sure, and in my opinion better.  Express you artistry and show you craftsmanship in the fronts.

The first set is already done, using the face frame method.  After I did those, I did 8 cabinets in my garage and did use frameless, full overlay doors, using my LR-32 for holes, etc.  I like them, but her, not so much.  Because these new ones are in the same sewing room as the old ones, I pretty much have to match them up.

 

[jeh]

Yes, leave the space.

If you are fabricating the cabinets, make this run as one unit.

Tom

Thanks Tom.  The plan is 4x 30" wide cabinets.  Are you saying make one 120" cabinet?  If so, I would never get it hung.

If you know that you're going to put up four cabinets and know that you'll never change the configuration once installed, why not just make up the four boxes to the exact size, hang them precisely, then make a single face frame to cover all four boxes?  It will make for a neater overall appearance, and if you need to do any scribing, you'll be able to do it all at once. 

Make a single unit and get some help hanging it. You will be happier with the results and have a lot more options for mounting it as every stud is available and you will not have to screw each cabinet to the next. 120" is completely doable.