Jointing with TS75

[singram]

Long time reader, first post. I've read of others using a track saw to joint 2 boards by laying the boards side by side and then cutting along the 'seam' between the boards. I tried this today, and when I'm done with the cut and put the boards together I have to lift the opposite side of one of the boards by about 1/32" to close the joint (boards are 1x4). If I flip one of the boards end to end the joint is tight. I even tried ripping a board down the center and I got the same result.
Anyone have any idea what would cause this?  It doesn't make sense, even if the cut wasn't square, since I'm cutting both pieces together it should lay flat.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Stephen B]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member]

Welcome to the FOG singram

 

[semenza]

Hmmmm, you are right, it doesn't make sense. Only thing I can think of is that the boards are not being held in the final position when being cut. Or there is something on the surface near the seam (or uneven surface) causing one or both to be raised at the seam while cutting.  Maybe just that something is moving slightly while cutting. Ar eyou setting everything up so that nothing can move?

Not sure if you have seen this or not? Maybe something in it will ferret out the problem?

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/edge-jointing-a-countertop-with-the-ts75-(or-ts55)/

Seth

 

[ear3]

Welcome to the Forum!

Are the boards secured to the cutting surface, and/or the cutting surface flat and not bendy?  What you describe could happen, say, if the cutting surface bows a bit when applying pressure while cutting, or it could happen if while pressing down the opposite side of one or both of the boards is raised up slightly (in the manner of an open book being closed).

 

[JackW]

The last time I tried this I had to screw a temporary pierce to the underside of both ends of the two boards I order to keep them from moving.  I still was not crazy about the results; but the table top is still together. I think I am going to use a hand plane on the two boards clamped together the next time.

 

[tjbnwi]

Check the saw, be certain the blade is 90º to the base.

Any cup/rise in the boards will cause problems with this. Make sure the boards are flat.

Make sure your work surface is flat.

Tom

 

[singram]

Thanks for all the replies. I think you guys have hit it, it looks like the problem is that since I'm cutting 1x4, the second strip on the track does not hit the board so the board can lift up under the rail.
Now to figure a way to prevent that from happening. I'm cutting on my MFT, the boards I'm trying to joint are only 24" long. Anyone have any thoughts?  I suppose one solution is to buy a jointer, I'm fairly new to woodworking and don't have a fully outfitted shop yet, trying to make the best of what I have.
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Birdhunter]

Many of us have given up on jointing with a circular saw and have gone to a jointer and planer. If you want perfect joints, those two tools make them much easier. If you start working with rough wood ( not already dimensioned), jointers and planers are almost musts.

I like jointers and planers with helical heads with carbide cutters. Less noise, smoother cuts, and much longer cutter life than the knife style planers and jointers.

 

[tjbnwi]

I use a planer and no jointer since I got the TS. Got rid of the jointer as a matter of fact.

I get better seam joints with the TS than I ever did with a jointer.

A tooth cut joint will glue bond better than a knife cut joint.

Tom

 

[Holmz]

A hand plane is cheaper than a joiner, slower, less dusty, safer.

 

[Birdhunter]

I admire people that can produce jointer/planer results with a hand plane. I have a bunch of LN planes and enjoy using them. But, the modern planers and jointers produce beautiful results in minutes that would take me days to mimic with hand planes.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=12pt]I find some of the replys here 'interesting' with regard to planers/thicknessers and jointers.

As one who sells wood, I can tell you that even the best DAR timber might be 'straight out of the rack', but is not nessessarly straight. Therefore even using my TS55 for jointing, I still use a jointer and thicknesser to straighten and even the wider surfaces. Having a Thicknesser alone usually will not make a 'banana' straight - you just get a thinner 'banana'.  [smile]

And yes you can keep flipping the timber with each pass in a Thicknesser, but this often wastes more. Indeed may not be even possible with some bent timber.

 

[Holmz]

I admire people that can produce jointer/planer results with a hand plane. I have a bunch of LN planes and enjoy using them. But, the modern planers and jointers produce beautiful results in minutes that would take me days to mimic with hand planes.

^True^ , but for 2x  1" pieces of pine ??
Assuming that the TS got the cut relatively straight it is not a lot that gets shaved off to make it gapless.

However I fail to see how the pieces are the way that they are.
Even with the saw at a 45 degree angle the two parts should come together.
The blade would have to cut out more on the top than the bottom for the joint to be off.
Either the saw sipping down the rail on an angle like a (Aero)plane in a cross wind or something is really hosed up.

I would be fixing the TS, or the rail rather than buying a jointer. He needs one tool that works, not a bevy of tools.

And a hand plane taking a shaving off is not the same as making a board out of a propeller.

 

[Tayler_mann]

So I do this all the time with my TS 55 here is my procedure and I get a perfect joint everytime.

First I rough cut all my lumber about 2" oversized. You can do less if you want but I have found 2" the magic number for me. Than I lay out my boards making sure that the grain is reversed on every joint (this I feel is one of the most important parts). Than I face joint everything if the pieces do not sit flat on the table. I than screw all the boards to the table so none of them can move (the screw goes in the front and back of the board. This is the reason I like 2" extra.). Than I simplu lay my track over the joint and rip away. Since the boards are face jointed they will lay perfectly flat on the table and have no room for movement since they are screwed down. I don't even worry about getting the top side I rest the track on flat. I'll even have some pieces about 1/16 or 3/32 taller than others. Than I domino them if need be or just edge glue them together referencing the flat faces as my surface. Than into the 24" oscillating belt sander to even out the uneven side and prep it for finish sanding. This process all together takes me about 30 minutes of real work and it's a flat slab at the end everytime unless it's that God forsaken alder.

 

[ear3]

Can you put a sacrificial piece of ply on mft which you can screw boards into? That way you're not drilling into mft.  If you have no extra length on the boards, and have a compressor and nail gun, you could also tap them down at either end with an 18ga nail, which you can grind off later. 

Another thing is to have some scrap the same thickness as the workpiece to support the part of the rail that will be floating off the edge of the 1x4.

Maybe take a picture of your cutting setup and post it so we could do more specific diagnises if needed.

Thanks for all the replies. I think you guys have hit it, it looks like the problem is that since I'm cutting 1x4, the second strip on the track does not hit the board so the board can lift up under the rail.
Now to figure a way to prevent that from happening. I'm cutting on my MFT, the boards I'm trying to joint are only 24" long. Anyone have any thoughts?  I suppose one solution is to buy a jointer, I'm fairly new to woodworking and don't have a fully outfitted shop yet, trying to make the best of what I have.
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Holmz]

An MFT is not great for hand planing on... i.e. not rigid enough.
But it just takes a minor kiss with a hand plane to get it good.

Sometime (often) I throw the wood on the back of the truck.
Alternatively I clamp a board off the back of the  MFT to rest against the house, so the planing does not push the MFT racking it.

I use one these mostly because I like the look of it, and it makes me happy when I use it.

However I use the one with the screw know adjustment for the depth, so it has a screw where the wooden block is.

 

[tjbnwi]

[size=12pt]I find some of the replys here 'interesting' with regard to planers/thicknessers and jointers.

As one who sells wood, I can tell you that even the best DAR timber might be 'straight out of the rack', but is not nessessarly straight. Therefore even using my TS55 for jointing, I still use a jointer and thicknesser to straighten and even the wider surfaces. Having a Thicknesser alone usually will not make a 'banana' straight - you just get a thinner 'banana'.  [smile]

And yes you can keep flipping the timber with each pass in a Thicknesser, but this often wastes more. Indeed may not be even possible with some bent timber.

I believe you mean flatten on the jointer. I've flattened many boards in my simple DeWalt lunch box planer. You need to set the roller pressure not to flatten the board as it goes through the unit. Done this way it will be no thinner than if it was done on a jointer. I know some will joint one side the plane the other. If the board is wider than you jointer getting the board flat is impossible.

Tricks to issuing a planer to flatten- is not to flip it until you have a flat side, plane the convex side first.

I can straighline with the TS-55 or 75 faster than it can ever be done with a jointer. Trying to feed a 12' long board on edge over the average shop jointer is a lessen in futility.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

Thanks for all the replies. I think you guys have hit it, it looks like the problem is that since I'm cutting 1x4, the second strip on the track does not hit the board so the board can lift up under the rail.
Now to figure a way to prevent that from happening. I'm cutting on my MFT, the boards I'm trying to joint are only 24" long. Anyone have any thoughts?  I suppose one solution is to buy a jointer, I'm fairly new to woodworking and don't have a fully outfitted shop yet, trying to make the best of what I have.
Thanks again for all the help.

Place a back 1x next to the one being jointed, the rail will sit flat and be stable.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

A video on straight-line ripping.



Tom