Just a thought

[Brent b]

The books title could be Zen and the art of Festool.  (an overused title but so appropriate here)
These tools require a different approach; a different awareness than american tools that I've used, especially as you go deeper into the system.  It's not so cut and dry as I thought it would be.  Hence, I suppose, this forum.

All in all beautiful tools though.

Anyone else encountering this?

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I know what you mean Brent.  To me, it seems like the tools are easy to use right out of the box, but each time you come back to them thoughtfully you find more depth. 

 

[ejantny]

Once you realize the accuracy, ease of use, quickness, efficiency ..... did I mention cleaner air. All this makes the price more easy to live with ... did I mention cleaner air.

 

[Dan Clark]

Festools are kind of like the elephant and 10 men story.  (10 blindfolded men stand around the elephant touching it.  Each feels something different.)  It's multiple things to multiple people.  I think this is why you get so many differing opinions.  But...

Your point is on a differing plane - not what they are, but how you use them.  I think it's right on.  For many people, especially those steeped in traditional woodworking knowledge, it's difficult to "see" how Festools can work.  Their approach to a problem is from a traditionalist's viewpoint.  They either can't or don't want to change their approach.  For example...

I've heard or read this question a thousand times, "What's the best way to cut a sheet goods on my tablesaw?"  The problem is their starting point - the assumption that one MUST cut sheet goods on the tablesaw.  Never mind that you have to have a BIG tablesaw, that you are lifting a big, heavy piece of wood about waist high, or that it's difficult to control the bugger. 

Festoolians think outside the box, so to speak.  Our approach might be, "Hmmm...  All I have to do is throw down a couple pieces of pink foam insullation on the floor or a low table, flop the sheet goods on top, toss on a rail, and cut the beastie."  The result?  Less backaches, straight cuts, and you just store your "tablesaw" against the wall when done.  It's a different approach to the problem.

To be sure, there are things where the traditional approach is faster and/or better.  For example, when cutting a single 2X4, many times I'll just grab my handsaw and get it done.  (Of course my "handsaw" is a ryoba pull saw.  ;D )  The key is knowing which approach is better for your specific needs at the time.

IMO, the "zen" is a Festoolians nature to explore different approaches to problems and not be bound by tradition.  Festool tools support this.  Many other tools do not. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Barry]

What I worry about is too many people on this board going the other route and never thinking of traditional ways, in my opinion to make both tools work together is the best route if you have both.

On most forums the answer is "tablesaw", here is it is "festool", mabye the the answer is "it depends".  Lou has touched on this in the past but for a large number of cuts that can be handled safely the TS is the way to go.  Maybe the best way to make my point is to use examples:

Shelves:

A bunch of faily narrow 12" or less pieces that will make up the sides and shelves.  I would use my TS55 to break down 4x8 sheet into an easier to manage size then cut the exact widths on TS, then cut to length on MFT.  So a shelf unit 72"hx36"x11"d with 5 shelves.
1.> Crosscut 1st sheet to 72 1/2" (account for final sizing on side panels)
2.> Rip at 11" on TS becase the sheet will be pretty easy to handle at that size
3.> Crosscut parts to correct widths use TS55 and MFT
4.> Drink beer while doing victory dance of integration

Drawers

A LARGE number of narrow BB plywood pieces to make drawers, 20wx20dx4h, all the cuts for the sides would be on the TS since BB is typically 5x5 and easier to handle in 1/2" that you would use on drawers.  The bottoms would be a repeat of above, cut big sheet into managable pieces and cut to final sizes on TS.

Drink beer while doing victory dance of integration

Base cabinets in a kitchen:

I would use my TS55 for almost the entire job of cutting the pieces.  Since many of the parts are in the 24x30 range you are really hitting the sweet spot for use.  With the both the scrap side and good side of the cut being fairly large it is much easier to move the tool over the wood for control and safety.

Drink beer while doing victory dance of integration then realize your buzzed and it is time to call it a day.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

You hit the nail on the head, Barry.  I think integration is the way to go, though I would add hand tools to the picture.

I'm still in the learning curve.  My natural inclination is to try to make the ATF55/MFT act like a table saw, when I should just go with the flow and let it do what it is designed to do.

Reminds me of an old, old Mad magazine article, where Alfred E. Neuman (What, me worry?) shows how to make a screwdriver into a chisel, how to make a chisel into a knife, how to make a knife into something else and eventually the next-to-the last thing gets made into a screwdriver.

 

[Gary K]

Agree with you, Barry. No need to have "tunnel vision", Utilize the assets of both systems. One has to be flexible.  If a tree did not bend...it would break.
     Gary K.

 

[Dan Clark]

Barry,

"Integration"?  Hmmm...  Yep, good term.  That covers it.  Not bound by old OR new thinking.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Barry]

Thanks gents, just sharing how I do things so it might help others.  Sorry Jesse, didn't meant to leave out hand tools, but since Festool doesn't make any I didn't think to include them in the discussion.  I use handtools on every project and have a growing collection, couldn't make anything without them at this point.  Too man damn slippery slopes in this hobby...