Kapex 120 REB -- Semi-official acknowledgement of the smoking motor problem for the EB model?

[ChuckS]

I suppose this is as close as you can get from Festool to acknowledge that some of its EB model saws may have an inherent problem.

The product descriptions for the Kapex 120 REB now mention the upgraded motors.

The honorable thing Festool can do is to offer EB owners a motor replacement service for free -- if the motor breaks down (Yeah, I know that's not gonna happen.)

 

[leakyroof]

This is why I've always been reluctant to get a Kapex. Some people never had issues, others went though multiple motors, as noted in all the threads in the world about Kapex owners and their experiences with the Saw.

 

[Cheese]

I purchased mine back in 2015 and it's worked flawlessly...View attachment 1769013139916.webp...however I'm also a realist and expect at some point I'll have to install the upgraded parts. The upgrade kits are sold in the UK as "just another commodity item".

If I remember correctly, the issue was metal/carbon dust collecting in the wrong areas and shorting out the armature. That would certainly be a Festool design problem from the get-go and I would think that replacement parts should be offered to original owners at a highly discounted rate.

 

[onocoffee]

This is why I've been very cautious about buying a certain era of used KS120. What I've gathered from the threads here on FOG is that the EB, mostly from 2015 onward, have the most (perhaps only?) issues with the armature.

Recently, a friend asked me to go with him to look at a used KS120. It was in great condition since the owner was a furniture maker who took very good care of his tools (a plus). When we saw that it was a 2012 build, I figured that it was a relatively safe buy because of what I had read here. He got it for a song.

Last week, a seller reached out to me about a KS120 he had been wanting to sell and send me the specs on it. Overall, it's in good shape (he's a cabinet maker that seems to take good care of his tools as well). IIRC, it was a 2017 build and he was asking around $1K for it. I told him that I appreciate the offer but that I'm probably not the right buyer and he'd probably find the better buyer on Marketplace. He asked me why and I told him about the issues with that era and the potential cost of repair. He said he never had any issues. I told him I didn't think he would have abused his gear but that it's a known issue and for me to buy that saw, I also have to look at the potential cost of repair should the armature go up in smoke. The cost could be anywhere from $350 up and beyond the cost of a new KS120. I told him the amount I would be willing to pay while taking on that risk and I'm sure he's seeking a buyer elsewhere.

At one point previously, I called into FTCS to see what a KS120 repair might cost. And while the CS rep was reticent to name a price, as we chatted about potential issues, she did concede that she had forwarded KS120 rebuild repair quotes that were close to the cost of a new KS120. To my mind, that's too much risk to take on for a 2015+ KS120 EB if you're paying anywhere near (or above) $1,000.

 

[SoonerFan]

I purchased mine back in 2015 and it's worked flawlessly...View attachment 380630...however I'm also a realist and expect at some point I'll have to install the upgraded parts. The upgrade kits are sold in the UK as "just another commodity item".

If I remember correctly, the issue was metal/carbon dust collecting in the wrong areas and shorting out the armature. That would certainly be a Festool design problem from the get-go and I would think that replacement parts should be offered to original owners at a highly discounted rate.

Like @Cheese, I have had mine for more than a decade. Zero problems. I hope I never have issues, but I am realistic that it might happen. If it does, I hope the repair is no where close to the cost of a new one. I also hope it does not start smoking at the beginning of a big project.

 

[Cheese]

I also hope it does not start smoking at the beginning of a big project.

That would indeed be the worst case scenario.

 

[rmhinden]

I have an EB model I got in 12/09/2017. I have not had any problems and am very happy with the saw.

Seems to me that after 8 years if I have a problem that is not too bad.

Bob

 

[ChuckS]

Mine is 10 years.old, sometimes used for hours in a session, and I baby it:
1) Use it on a 20 amp circuit
2) Use dust extraction
3) Suck dust from the armature after every use.

Like some of the premium hand tools, you don't need it to do good work, but it's a pleasure to use it and build something, knowing that it's best in class in many of its features.

 

[Max Fracas]

I have an EB dated 07/14. It worked well for 6 or 7 years and then died. IIRC, it cost something over $500 to get it repaired. The cost for Festool to ship it back to me was cheap, but UPS from me to Indiana was over $200. The saw has worked fine since the repair.

 

[ChuckS]

Did they fix it with the upgraded motor?

 

[onocoffee]

I have an EB dated 07/14. It worked well for 6 or 7 years and then died. IIRC, it cost something over $500 to get it repaired. The cost for Festool to ship it back to me was cheap, but UPS from me to Indiana was over $200. The saw has worked fine since the repair.

This is helpful.
We can use this as a guideline for how much an armature failure may cost. I would use this to consider my overall cost of a used late 2010s Kapex. Meaning if the used saw is being sold for $1100 - what many might consider a deal, potentially will cost you $1800 - a not so great deal.

 

[Cheese]

This is helpful.
We can use this as a guideline for how much an armature failure may cost. I would use this to consider my overall cost of a used late 2010s Kapex. Meaning if the used saw is being sold for $1100 - what many might consider a deal, potentially will cost you $1800 - a not so great deal.

I'd counter that statement with the caveat that if you perform the servicing yourself, and the replacement part costs $262, for a total of $1362 it still is a good deal providing the Kapex you purchase/service is in pristine condition. And while I'm sure there are some beaters out there, I suspect a majority of the used Kapex's are in pretty darn nice cosmetic condition.

 

[onocoffee]

I'd counter that statement with the caveat that if you perform the servicing yourself, and the replacement part costs $262, for a total of $1362 it still is a good deal providing the Kapex you purchase/service is in pristine condition. And while I'm sure there are some beaters out there, I suspect a majority of the used Kapex's are in pretty darn nice cosmetic condition.

I hear you and agree, the first thing to do with an old Kapex is to try to fix it yourself. However, I think the prudent calculation is one where you consider that you muck it up even more and still have to send it in. This is where my concern lies. Of course, to each their own, but if my total outlay for an EB that's X amount of years old is pushing $1400 - is that really worth it when a new REB, with the warranty, is $400 more?

 

[Max Fracas]

If my Kapex went out again, I’d try to fix it myself for three reasons. 1) The parts are cheaper than the shipping to Indiana and 2) the repair would cost less than whatever saw I’d replace it with, and 3) my miter station is specifically sized for the Kapex.