Kapex center of miter angle rotation?

smorgasbord

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Spencer Lewis has yet another great video on miter saw usage:


He's almost always focused on trim work, since that's his day job, but he delves into accuracy often. On his DeWalt 780 he observed that the center of miter angle rotation is where the front of the factory fence meets the right side of the blade kerf. As a result, he always sets that saw up to cut to the right so that his measuring fence/stop blocks are correct no matter whether he's doing 90º cuts or 45º miters, or compound cuts for crown.

I'm not at my shop, but my recollection on my Bosch 12" slider is that the center of rotation is in the middle of the kerf. Here's a post I made on a cube-style ZCI for the back fence:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...stalled-colliflower-cube/msg707477/#msg707477

Here's a close-up of the last photo in that post:
[attachimg=1]

It looks to me that the left edge of the kerf in my insert is pristine after two angled cuts, while the right edge may be widened (notice how the angled cut line doesn't extend straight to the face).

Due to trigonometry, cutting angles will always result in a wider kerf, the question is where is the center pivot point? If it's not at the edge of the 90º blade kerf from which you're measuring and if uber-accuracy is important, you'll have to adjust based on the miter angle. I don't recall measuring various angled pieces with calipers, but I do recall thinking that the left edge was close enough to be useful as my zero point.

I'm wondering what the Kapex does?

Looking at the photos on Colliflower's web site for their Cube product:
[attachimg=2]

It's hard for me to tell. Given that all the miter saws I know have the arbor nut on the left, placing the pivot location at the right of the blade would yield invariance despite different blade kerf thicknesses (eg thin kerf vs regular kerf), so there's some advantage to that - except most people are right-handed and so cutting to the left is the normal/default layout.

Anyway, if someone with a Kapex and an OCD accuracy bent for machine set-up like me (and Mr. Lewis) can check, it would be interesting to see. I also wonder if there's not just variation by manufacturer or model, but also in machine calibration/set-up and if different instances of the same model are different.
 

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Just bumping since I think its newness might have gotten lost in the forum migration. I really would like to know the center of rotation for people's miter saws, including Kapexes.
 
I had my Kapex out today and was cutting 15 degree miters (on purpose... the 1.5 degree bevel was an accident, unfortunately), but I hadn't caught up from being away to see this before I put it away. I'll keep an eye on the thread and pull it back out to weigh in if nobody else has soon.
 
My recollection on finding the vertical pivot axis on my Bosch knuckle slider is that I clamped a 3" or so board vertically to the factory fence on both sides, with the fence wings spread out wide. Then I took a sharpie and outlined the kerf from the back. Then swung to a 45º miter angle and recut, then looked to see which of the two edge sharpie marks were still there (both cannot still be there!).

If both marks are gone after the 45º miter cut, then the center of rotation is probably within the kerf.

If only one mark is gone, swing to the other 45º side, cut, and look again. If one of those marks is still there, that's almost certainly the vertical axis of rotation.

If only one mark was gone after the first miter cut, but both marks are gone after the second miter cut, then there isn't a fixed axis of rotation for your saw, which would be bad. I suppose it's also possible that one mark is preserved after both cuts but that's not the pivot axis before the pivot axis moved even further away on the miter cut(s), which again would be bad. So, repeat the 90º cut, mark kerf, repeat the 45º cut, re-mark the side of the kerf that was removed, and then cut the other 45º to see what happens. There might be a case where you need to put measuring marks on the backside of the stock before clamping it to the fence to see what's going on.
 
Sorry for the late reply. It appears that the center of the kerfs intersect at the front of the fence. See images included.
 

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Thanks for the images! (Edited/Corrected text and rotated images below, thanks to @squall_line !)

After enhancing the images in Illustrator and Photoshop to show:
• Red lines - Right edge of kerf
• Blue lines - Left edge of kerf

I get these:
Kerf1LinesDot.jpg

and
Kerf2LinesDot.jpg

I put a Green Dot at the intersection of the kerf's left edges with the front face. They're pretty close on the first image and almost dead nuts on in the second image. Notice how the blue lies (left edge of the kerfs) do not all meet up nearly as well. And while it's close for the center of the kerf, I believe that if I were to draw those lines, they would miss each more than the right edges. This is especially apparent on the second image.

So the Kapex's axis of rotation is at the RIGHT edge of the blade, where it meets the front of the fence.

So, Spencer Lewis was right that it appears the Kapex and DeWalt are using the right edge of the blade kerf for axis. This does mean you want to do your all your critical cutting to the right of the blade, which is not how most right-handed people operate. I'll have to re-check my Bosch when I get a chance. If it's not different I might need to completely redo my miter saw station setup, which has stock going to the left of the blade.

I think the process for determining this that I outlined above might be better, as it would show any trimming of the black Sharpie line drawn on the cut edge, but these photos (thanks again!) are enough to convince me.
 
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After I learned about the pivot point and confirmed it worked on my Kapex as Spencer showed with his Dewalt, I moved my Kapex and stand setup in my shop. I now have more space on the right side of the blade and less on the left. I also bought another flag stop so now I have a couple on my ride side wing plus the stop at the end of the sliding extension. This setup allows me to take advantage of much of what he had taught in his videos and still have good portability. I will allocate more space on the right side when I get around to building a miter saw station someday.

And I am a big fan of Spencer’s. For me, he is one of the best on YouTube. Great techniques and great ability to teach.
 
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And I am a big fan of Spencer’s. For me, he is one of the best on YouTube. Great techniques and great ability to teach.
I really like his no fuss, laid back, without any trace of arrogance style of videos, always very enjoyable. Great to see such an accomplished young bloke.
 
I really like his no fuss, laid back, without any trace of arrogance style of videos, always very enjoyable. Great to see such an accomplished young bloke.
And he does all this good work for something that is like a second job for him. I am sure YouTube content creation requires him to put in a lot of time setting up, filming, editing videos and then responding to comments from time to time.
 
I added kerf center lines to the photos (by eye):
Kerf1LinesDotCenters.jpg

Kerf2LinesDotCenters.jpg

In the first photo, it looks to me that the kerf centerline is closest to the axis - closer than the right edge of the keft. But, the second photo still more clearly shows the right edge of the kerf being the axis. I wonder if my mark the back of the vertical kerf with a Sharpie procedure would yield more consistent results?

PS: Agree on Spencer Lewis, if you're a trim carpenter his channel is a great watch for being efficient in production. For a DIYer like myself there are occasional tips that make it worthwhile, too.
 
PS: Agree on Spencer Lewis, if you're a trim carpenter his channel is a great watch for being efficient in production. For a DIYer like myself there are occasional tips that make it worthwhile, too.
His stair building series is likely the most productive time I have ever spent on YouTube.
 
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