Kapex Hold Downs - Both Sides?

[Rockne]

I wish to start a debate.  O.k. not really, but I am very interested in others' thoughts.  I posted in my review of the Kapex that I thought the saw ought to come with two hold-downs, one for each side.  I want to emphasize that I intend the hold downs to be used simultaneously.  Others over at Lumberjocks have suggested that it would be unsafe, but I don't think this makes sense.  I can't comprehend how it would be any less safe than having one's hand on the workpiece, at least.  If you were to get kickback in the latter case, your hand/arm would be in the way, AND you'd be more likely to get kickback if you inadvertently pushed the workpiece into the blade after the cut.  Finally, having your hand/arm as far away from the blade as possible seems like it should be a reasonable goal for a miter saw, thought they are inherently less dangerous than other tools in the shop.

So, what do you think?  What do the Festool guys say?  It doesn't seem to be often-discussed, which is probably a testament to a low level of injuries with a SCMS, but I'm very interested in understanding why it might not be a good idea.

 

[tbellemare]

In my opinion, it's unsafe to hold or otherwise confine both sides of any piece of wood being cut. The cut can release internal stress causing almost instantaneous movement.

Tom

 

[copcarcollector]

I was told by Steve Bace (Festool trainer) at the Les Vegas training facility to use only one hold down, be it mechanical and/or your hand, at a time. (So one side OR the other, not both sides at the same time) Using both could cause the blade to bind in the cut, as neither piece has the ability to move if needed if both sides are held down.

 

[JCLP]

I agree. two hold downs would be an accident looking to happen. I believe every manufacturer of Chop/Sliding mitre saws only provide you with one hold down.

 

[tbellemare]

I'm not saying two hold down clamps aren't useful. I know some that have two on their saws for the convenience of not moving the one from side-to-side.

I do think that using both simultaneously is dangerous.

Tom

EDIT:
I also think that using a clamp and a hand on the opposite side is even more dangerous..!

 

[semenza]

I was told by Steve Bace (Festool trainer) at the Les Vegas training facility to use only one hold down, be it mechanical and/or your hand, at a time. (So one side OR the other, not both sides at the same time) Using both could cause the blade to bind in the cut, as neither piece has the ability to move if needed if both sides are held down.

....... and binding in the cut can equal the head shooting forward on the slide.

      However, I have two hold downs just to reduce the amount of swapping from one side to the other. Not to use simultaneously.

Seth

 

[GPowers]

      However, I have two hold downs just to reduce the amount of swapping from one side to the other. Not to use simultaneously.

Seth

Plus one here.

I would like to see a pneumatic clamp for the Kapex. Clamping with a foot switch, hands free.

 

[Vondawg]

I've used a clamp down maybe a handful of times since it was offered on a MS . About 20yrs into my 45 yr career....still going ....98% of the time not used and then only when you get into a tricky cut and you probably should have done it another way anyway. Be safe and smart but don't be afraid of your tools.

 

[Grasshopper]

Uh, oh.  I think I may have done that a time or two.  Can you explain the dangers to thick headed folks like myself?

Context-  I have made cuts on longer stock where I have clamped the left side and supported the cantilevered right side with my hand so it doesn't fall to the floor (I am standing on the right side of the blade using my left hand to cut and the right hand to support the stock).

I am always learning here on the FOG

EDIT:
I also think that using a clamp and a hand on the opposite side is even more dangerous..!

 

[glass1]

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

 

[bkharman]

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

Nice comment there buddy. Plenty of noobs on this forum trying to learn a new hobby or trade.

If you don't agree with people's posts here... Shake your head and move onto the next post. If you want to start a "pro only" forum, there are plenty of sites out there to show you how.

Good day sir.

 

[Doug S]

You only need 1 clamp and you really should use it, it is much safer and does make a difference to the quality of cut, especially on mitres.

Doug

 

[semenza]

  There are plenty of  members here from all walks of life both pro and non-pro. Experienced and inexperienced.  The collective knowledge and skill of all of those members is what this forum is about. I have seen plenty of pro work that is  downright poor compared to many hobbyists , and vice versa.  The pro  / non-pro is not a dividing point.

    Seth

 

[peter halle]

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

No.

 

[peter halle]

I admit that I rarely use the clamp.  In fact I rarely carry it with me.  I did use it today to clamp a spacer to the table to enable me to cut a miter.  I don't see the need for a second clamp but also don't buy into the two clamps is unsafe on a miter saw - if the work is properly supported away from the saw.

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

if the work is properly supported away from the saw.

Peter

Why would a second clamp even be considered?

Tom

 

[NHSP759]

I have two hold downs but it's for convenience. I NEVER use both. That's just asking for trouble. I happened on a second one for dirt and I will use ONE on either the left or right depending on which side I'm cutting from.

 

[erock]

Hold up......the Kapex has hold down?

Hmmm......I'll have to try to find mine.  I live on the wild side  [tongue]

Eric

 

[Scott B.]

  There are plenty of  members here from all walks of life both pro and non-pro. Experienced and inexperienced.  The collective knowledge and skill of all of those members is what this forum is about. I have seen plenty of pro work that is  downright poor compared to many hobbyists , and vice versa.  The pro  / non-pro is not a dividing point.

    Seth

Word.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

In addition to what others have said, we all start out as novice tool users. It's only through asking questions that we can progress in our understanding and skills.

We're all here to help each other. That's the spirit of what this forum is about.

I've been doing this for 10 years and still ask questions that others may consider novice.

Shane