xedos said:
The Kapex failures were because of a batch of certain parts, it’s documented on this site and elsewhere.
Really - Where ?
I've followed this since the beginning and don't recall seeing such documentation. I do remember Festool denying there was a problem. Then telling everyone that they must have failed because they were used to cut small/thin material. I'm a bit fuzzy on the next bit though. There has been a re-design, but I don't think Festool has specifically said there was a problem.
Which is two different things even if they are related.
Festool finally admitted there was a potential issue with some Kapex’s that had certain parts fitted. They say the problem is now resolved with upgraded parts.
see above - can you provide the link to their admission?
And sorry, but I'm just not willing to "take their word for it" after their outright denial to start with. Furthermore - how do you ,or even Festool, know whether the "upgrade" is going to solve the issues ? You can't, and I'm skeptical they have the capacity or even wherewithal to have stress tested the new motors on 110v for long enough to know for sure either.
Remember this is the same company and group of engineers that designed the first faulty motor ( which presumably was also tested with no problems ) and then couldn't find said issue when reports started surfacing. That faith doesn't seem very rational to me.
I have colleagues who have experienced Kapex failures, these are tradesman like myself that use power tools daily. They are used with respect and care, but not wrapped in cotton wool.
The majority of failures I have personally experienced, are 110v probably because in the UK they like us to use 110 on site but, I have also experienced one company that owned four 240 v Kapex’s and two of their saws had failed twice, and fixed under warranty, and also one of those saws failed a third time.
The saws were/are used for cutting flooring up to around 20mm thick, and small beading and trim, nothing more. His guys have like 20-30 years of experience. They know how to use a mitre saw.
Yet the saws randomly failed.
I have seen the other side of things, where trades have turned up on site, with absolutely battered Kapex’s. Broken blade guards, blunt blades, badly marked tops and fences, even holes in the casings.
These saws have been clearly abused. I asked one such guy (about 2 years ago) how long he’d owned the saw, he replied since they first came out. He had one warranty claim on it, not from motor issues though, it was the blade guard and mechanism.
The people certainly didn’t treat or respect their tools properly, yet the motors were going strong.
I have for many years owned a lot of Makita tools, also some Mafell, Hilti and Festool.
My mitre saws have been mainly Elu/De Walt and Makita, and one or two random one offs from other manufacturers. I never had any issues from any of the mitre saws, apart from the usual brush replacement, and the usual expected consumables.
I was hearing or seeing Kapex’s failing a fair bit. Not every day, or every week but, every so often I’d hear or be told about another failure.
So after quite some time, I figured there must be an issue with the saws, and in view of the cost of one, I was a bit miffed why people bought them.
I kept hearing how good they are, well at least until they failed. Many colleagues told me to buy one and I’d never look back, no thanks I’d reply, pay out all that money and worry about smoke pouring out of it.
I even told of my experiences, and low opinion of the situation on this site and some others.
I had a new chap start with us, and he owns a lot of Mafell and Festool kit. He as a Kapex 120 EB.
I immediately ribbed him about the saw, saying we have a spare mitre saw for when his develops a smoking habit. He took it in the way it was meant, a bit of banter. He then said he’d not buy any other saw when the time came to replace it, it was that good. Even most of the owners of failed saws told me the same, which got me thinking.
Anyway, he worked alongside me for a while, and told me to feel free to use his Kapex instead of getting my saw off the van. I couldn’t resist to be honest, and in a very short time, I learned what all the fuss was about, and why these saws are held in such high regard.
The vertical handle took some getting used to, and the motor tone isn’t like that of any other saws I’ve owned, even the latest 120 REB sounds similar.
Quite some time later, we needed to buy a new mitre saw, I was now hankering after a Kapex but, all the stories and experiences I’d had was preying on my mind.
I spoke to different dealers asking if the issues were now sorted, usually the replies were “what issues”
Then after a lot of digging I spoke to some more honest dealers, and somebody who was quite high up at Festool, that the issues were real, and related to certain batches of parts.
So some machines had the potential to fail, and depending on what batch of parts were used to repair them, had the potential to fail again.
So, any older model 120 EB machines, I think after October 2017 were fitted with upgraded parts.
This may of been a guinea pig test who knows?
Apparently much testing was carried out, and Festool were happy with the results, and released the latest Kapex 120 REB, also fitted with the upgraded parts.
There was no announcement at the time from Festool, who seemed to be sticking to the “what problem” stance. This is what seems to have upset so many Festool owners including myself. They obviously knew there was an issue, albeit a minority percentage, just by the warranty claims they were dealing with? If they had been more transparent, I’m sure customers would have felt their intelligence wasn’t being insulted. Perhaps at the time, because they didn’t have a fix, they decided to play it down? Either way, they were wrong in my opinion.
I went on to buy the latest 120 REB just after release. It has been a great saw so far, I honestly cannot fault it and don’r regret the purchase, I even recommend it to friends and colleagues.
Too early to say if it will stand the test of time, if it fails in warranty, it will get fixed no charge. If it fails out of warranty, I will put it down to an expensive mistake, I certainly won’t lose sleep over it, as there’s far more important things to worry about than a broken saw.
Festool decided to finally come clean about the issues, way too late in my opinion but, better late than never I guess.
This is documented here and in other media and sites if you search.
Here is one example:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-announcements/message-from-festool-about-kapex-miter-saw/
I’m sure you can search for yourself, for any other snippets or info, or speak to a trusted dealer, or even call up Festool and discuss it. When I did this, It was confirmed to me.
I’m personally satisfied that this is true, and is about as much as we’re going to get from Festool regarding the matter. It would as others have mentioned, been good for owners of the earlier saws, to get a recall and have the upgraded parts fitted. Festool maintain it is only certain saws, with a certain batch of parts fitted that are at risk though. Which might explain why so many old, out of warranty saws are still going strong?
So, I’m happy to carry on as a Festool customer, and move on.
So forget all about voltage, or babying, it has nothing to do with it. As the poster above advised, if you’re not happy with Festool, or don’t trust them, move on and buy alternative offerings.
