Kapex just died

[Wooden Skye]

I have read this entire thread, and Kapex failures, almost seem to rival SawStop threads. 

JCLP, with all do respect and hopefully you don't think I'm trying to start an argument (devils advocate type of thing).  I get that you don't like having to send the saw in for service, especially since you use the saw to make a living. I don't think it is as simple based on the math and other reasons stated.  If it is really that simple, then why did you start this thread?  You ran the saw through your CT for 4 years, you should have expected the failure, laws of physics and all?  Didn't you read the manual during the 4 years?  Maybe it isn't so simple after all. 

I don't own the Kapex, just never felt the price was justified.  However, Festool stating that all there tools can be run through the CT, is somewhat BS.  By not recognizing or admitting that the motor burn ups reported are due to not enough amps, then it is poor design and Festool is speaking half truths and should be held accountable.  Most people, me included don't fully read manuals.  They preach the use of all tools as a system, but if the system causes failure then why shouldn't they be more transparent in the reasoning behind the failures.  As others have mentioned, the OF2200 and TS75 don't seem to have similar issues.  They should be more clear that all tools aren't to be used as part of the system approach, offer a better warranty on the Kapex, or redesign the Kapex and even the CT to handle the loads of all tools as a system.

 

[TXFIVEO]

I had the Kapex and stand in my cart and ready to purchase but a voice in my head had me second guessing.  So I decided to stick with my work horse Dewalt DWS780. Have had it for three years with ZERO issues.  A beast.  If Festool would simply fix the known issue by replacing motors then I would be sold.  Until then, I will keep using the Dewalt. 

 

[Steven Owen]

I had the Kapex and stand in my cart and ready to purchase but a voice in my head had me second guessing.  So I decided to stick with my work horse Dewalt DWS780. Have had it for three years with ZERO issues.  A beast.  If Festool would simply fix the known issue by replacing motors then I would be sold.  Until then, I will keep using the Dewalt.

The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Hopefully Festool does more to resolve it’s Kapex issues.  It has the potential to be the top shop miter saw.  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.

 

[ChuckM]

a) The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Could you please elaborate a bit on this or post a link where I can find more info. on that? If my Kapex died, I would like to find a more reliable alternative.

b)  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.

Perhaps they are expecting that. Fair question: How many people who are considering to buy a Kapex know about its motor issue if they don't browse this Forum?

I did not until I bought the Kapex and became a member of this Forum. Had I read about all the "Kapex just died" stories during my search for a better mitre saw, the Kapex would have been ruled out, not for money factor but for reliability reasons. I never buy or own a new car that does not have a good reliability track record. All new cars are reliable until after the 5 or 6 year warranty period and that is when a reliable car matters.

 

[Steven Owen]

a) The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Could you please elaborate a bit on this or post a link where I can find more info. on that? If my Kapex died, I would like to find a more reliable alternative.

b)  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.

Perhaps they are expecting that. Fair question: How many people who are considering to buy a Kapex know about its motor issue if they don't browse this Forum?

I did not until I bought the Kapex and became a member of this Forum. Had I read about all the "Kapex just died" stories during my search for a better mitre saw, the Kapex would have been ruled out, not for money factor but for reliability reasons. I never buy or own a new car that does not have a good reliability track record. All new cars are reliable until after the 5 or 6 year warranty period and that is when a reliable car matters.

They have a zero clearance at Infinity for the 780 along with better blades for a clean cut. 
https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-b...-accessories/miter-saw-zero-clearance-inserts

The Kapex issues are well known on Twitter and Facebook.  It’s not just a forum discussion.  It’s something Festool needs to address.

 

[Jaybolishes]

So much talk has been spent about amps and draw and where you plug it in. My Dewalt and Hitachi have run thousands of cutts off a 100’ small gauge cord before and never had the motors burn up.  The kapex is made of glass and I wouldn’t buy it if it were half the price until they fix this lemon.

 

[ChuckM]

So much talk has been spent about amps and draw and where you plug it in.

And despite all that electrical precaution, it still does not give me any assurance that my Kapex won't die out of nowhere....

That -- not the money spent -- is the sad part. :-[

 

[Womble]

I have to agree, all this talk about you need a power supply that meets a specific criteria is just twaddle.

The real world just doesn't work like this & also even the tolerances allowed by the National Grid here in the UK can vary massively. I have never had any issues ever with any other brand of tools in 35yrs apart from Festool when it comes to being so poorly designed with power requirements.

It isn't just the Kapex the TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs whereas plug a Makita Circular saw into the same lead & it runs absolutely fine.But admittedly i am not aware of the TS55s going up in smoke like the Kapex's.  I do own a 110v Kapex KA60 & was very nervous about ordering it, but in the end i hoped Festool had addressed the 110v motor issues as it was a new model & any company would be beyond stupid to use the same components in a new product knowing their was issues with the originally used components.

The fact is these are supposed to be high end tools for professionals (but i do think quality has deteriorated over recent years) & as such should be properly designed to account for power voltage/amp fluctuations, every other major power tool manufacturer manages to do this & i honestly do not understand why Festool struggle with this.

 

[Green Mojo]

Yeah, it’s sad because either they know what is wrong and won’t fix it or they can’t figure out what is wrong. Not sure which one of those is worse.

 

[Jaybolishes]

At this point they can’t say anything. If they did come out and report a flaw in the saw, you’d have tons of angry clients who had to pony up their hard earned money to fix their saws out of warranty.  I’d want my money back and I’d raise a heck of stink.  Remaining silent is what will keep them safe and I’m sure their high paid lawyers are telling them to keep quiet. Meanwhile they are driving their companies long excellent  reputation into the dirt.

 

[Gregor]

TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs

This likely is the motor overheat protection kicking in: it massively throttles down the power to (and the RPM of) the motor, a cut won't be possible anymore as it will stall near instantly, but allows you to run the saw (while not in material) allowing the motor fan to remove the excess heat quickly.

Should it run slow from the start with a long extension cord: fix your power supply situation as it's clearly out of spec.

 

[Rollin22Petes]

And what about the guys like me that  don't run there Kapex through a dust extractor or an extension cord but have still burned up several motors currently on it's third. I'm so sick of hearing that you can't do this or that or you risk burning up your saw. I have 8 employees and tools from probably every major manufacture and have never experienced the failure rate I have had with Festool. This saw is simply flawed and for what ever reason it's obvious Festool is not going too acknowledge that fact or come up with any kind of solution. How is it that every other manufacture can make saws that last years without a single hiccup and at a fraction of the cost ? When my Kapex burns up it's current motor (not if but when) it's not getting it repaired but it's going in the trash and getting replaced by a more reliable and cheaper saw.

 

[Womble]

TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs

This likely is the motor overheat protection kicking in: it massively throttles down the power to (and the RPM of) the motor, a cut won't be possible anymore as it will stall near instantly, but allows you to run the saw (while not in material) allowing the motor fan to remove the excess heat quickly.

Should it run slow from the start with a long extension cord: fix your power supply situation as it's clearly out of spec.

Like i say other tools work perfectly ok & as expected on the very same long cable runs despite being "out of spec" but i do understand the issues of voltage drop & usually mitigate this by using the 32A outlets on power distribution boxes & then using a fly lead to drop down to 16A leads.

It isn't an issue of the overheat protection kicking in when the saw hasn't even done any cuts, it is a case of the saw being under powered & very poorly designed on the electronics speed control & power tolerances circuitry. The TS 55 REQ often bogs down and struggles to cut even 18mm MDF with no long cable runs & sharp blade.

I have also had the saws protection refuse to the start the saw as if the brushes were worn out, but when removed 99% of the brushes were still intact (the saw was less 1yr old at the time) however fitting new brushes instantly fixed the issue yet again pointing to flaws in the electronics on the TS 55 REQ. I also know of another person who has experienced this exact issue also.

I own quite a few Festool tools & have more on my to get list, but i honestly see absolutely no value at all in defending Festool & maming excuses for them on these known issues, the facts are that they need to fix these design issues, no if buts or maybes about it. Mafell do not suffer from these issues & as a result people are starting to jump ship & are willing the pay the extra premium in order to not experience these power & motor problems.

 

[JCLP]

Looking forward to hear from Festool Canada service this coming week. Hopefully it will be an easy fix and not too costly.

JC

 

[junk731]

And what about the guys like me that  don't run there Kapex through a dust extractor or an extension cord but have still burned up several motors currently on it's third. I'm so sick of hearing that you can't do this or that or you risk burning up your saw. I have 8 employees and tools from probably every major manufacture and have never experienced the failure rate I have had with Festool. This saw is simply flawed and for what ever reason it's obvious Festool is not going too acknowledge that fact or come up with any kind of solution. How is it that every other manufacture can make saws that last years without a single hiccup and at a fraction of the cost ? When my Kapex burns up it's current motor (not if but when) it's not getting it repaired but it's going in the trash and getting replaced by a more reliable and cheaper saw.

Pete the only possible cause in your situation, if the saw is plugged into a dedicated 15 amp socket, is a bad saw. Personally I would never own a 120V Kapex. The price alone is severly out to lunch. The reason you don't hear about failures from other makes is that they typically aren't run through an autostart DC like a lot of Kapex owners try to do. I believe the only way this saw should be sold in NA, to restore faith, would be to offer a 7 year motor/electronics warranty, most issues seem to occur after the 3 year warranty. It wouldn't cost them anything, there are enough people that would buy the saws that are oblivious to the problem. Unfortunately the marketing department doesn't have the brainpower to come up with this simple solution.

 

[Mario Turcot]

I just read somewhere that if the Kapex, or any other tool for that matter, is not able to draw enough amps, that you do run the risk of motor burn out over a period of time. So this got me thinking and decided to some reading.
The Kapex manual, US version, says that the Kapex draws 13A ( 1600 W ) of power and the US manual for the CT26/36 says that the total connected load is 12A ( 1440W). I'm not an electrician but something smells fishy here. Kapex wants 13A but is only getting 12A. Can someone please explain this? My understanding of this is that the Kapex should not be connected to the CT26/36 and should be on it's own outlet, thus eliminating the Auto start function.

Cheers,
JC

Wondering why FestoolUSA produced that video if it is not recommended to use the vac outlet to power the saw.
Wondering why FestoolUSA produced that video

You can clearly see (1:48) on the video that they plugged the Kapex into the CT outlet. That video was on FestoolUSA youtube channel March 19, 2018

Personally before buying any Festool tools I always watch the "Getting started" video from festoolUSA. I watch the videos to get an overview of the tool capability and how integrated it is with THE system. That video and several other videos have in some degree convinced me to buy their product.

Mario

 

[alice]

To reduce the risk of fire only connect tools rated at 3.7 amps ? Confused! Kapex 13 amps.

 

[JCLP]

To reduce the risk of fire only connect tools rated at 3.7 amps ? Confused! Kapex 13 amps.

Interesting isn't it. If you take a look at the Rotex RO 125 it is rated at 500 watts. Using North American voltage numbers of 110V/120V this translates to 4.54 A and 4.16 A respectively. So, according to the warning sticker on the Kapex, it is not safe to use the Rotex 125. Now if you use the European voltage numbers of 220/240 you get 2.27A and 2.08 A respectively. Therefore 100% safe.
It would be interesting to go through the Festool line up for the North American models that use 110/120V and see which ones would be unsafe to use as per their, Festool's, admission on the warning sticker.

Cheers,
JC

 

[Cheese]

It would be interesting to go through the Festool line up for the North American models that use 110/120V and see which ones would be unsafe to use as per their, Festool's, admission on the warning sticker.

Anything that uses more than 444 watts...that's pretty much everything other than a few sanders, the Carvex and a Vecturo.

 

[copcarcollector]

I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.