Kapex KS60E review and user comments

[pingvinlakrits]

Starting a new thread, it will get you guys going until Peter Parfitt makes that video so feel free to be subjective and chime in but try to keep it civil.

These are my initial thoughts so it does not necessarily reflect a long term user perspective but hey - gotta start somewhere.

OK DONE:

First set of images is "sneaking up on cut line with shadow line":

I must say I am not too impressed with the shadow line indication.
It neither clear nor uniform in width (of course) so you need to SPIN the blade and/or lower until you get the shadow of a tooth on your mark. You are then _very_ close to the surface and you might as well touch the surface with the blade. Does it save time? No.

If you are cutting a wider board you need to extend and lower until you are almost on the surface to register. Once there the cut is right on the money but I think it is neither more convenient or better than putting the tooth on the mark by eye sight or using a laser.  [unsure]

For bevel cuts the shadow line works a little better but depending on if you are cutting on the mark or creeping up to the cut line you might overshoot. I did overshoot by a mm or a little more on the first try - even when I figured I got the shadow line right. User error of course but not intuitive, I think.

Might get used to it eventually but I think I prefer having a laser...

Ok, cutting narrow stock you can cut around 70mm standing the stock up. Test piece is 16x95mm mdf scrap and you can cut 16x95mm in a straight cut (barely) but in a mitre cut you get around 82mm on the 16x95mm piece, as shown on the photo. I would prefer to be able to cut standing mitres up to 95mm as it is a fairly common dimension over here but 70mm is ok.

Dust accumulated after a few test cuts:

Video on Dust Collection (TURN VOLUME DOWN  [scared])
=youtu.be

Note that the dust collection through a 27mm nozzle/hose is mediocre. It does spray a lot of dust outside the chute even when allowing for the vac to start up properly. This was not impressive performance for the saw. It actually might do worse  (definitely no better) than my old Makita and probably worse than my battery powered Metabo hooked up to a vac.

Video on Shadow line:=youtu.be

I do have a video which is 42 sec but it was too large to upload from my phone to my email. On that video the blade wobble is visible.

 

[Svar]

It neither clear nor uniform in width (of course) so you need to rotate the blade and/or lower until you get the shadow of a tooth on your mark.

Will it look better (uniform) if you pull the trigger and the blade is spinning?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

First impressions:

EDITED FOR CONTENT AND MY DYSLECTIC KEYBOARD HAMFISTED ATTEMPTS AT SPELLING CORRECTED

Heavy, but in a reassuring way. It is not a light weight mitre saw.

Base runs silky smooth. It is on par with the best I have handled.  [smile]
Scale is easy to read but there are no incremental detents on the scale. I don't miss them.

The fence is ok, fits nicely and runs smoothly. However, using the Festool clamp it does not fully reach the base (because of the fence height) when inserted in the back so it hangs loose and could rattle off in transport. It does not lock so can't be left on the machine which I would have liked. It is short a mm or two. Not good.
It locks down thin sheets pretty good though so in use it works as intended.

Blade key is at the back and locks in place really well, almost too well! It won't fall off...

Side extensions run smooth and extend quite a bit and there is nothing bad to say about them. Thumbs up!

Overall handling is very good to great. Build quality is reassuring until you look at the blade running, there is quite a bit of wobble going on. I reattached the blade but it was properly seated from the factory so sorry Festool, not so reassuring.

Blade spin continues for a bit as there is no blade brake. An issue? I don't know, not a deal breaker for me but I would prefer a faster blade spin down. I do have a video on it showing both wobble and blade spin down both free and under load but haven't managed to upload it yet as I could not get it off my phone at that size.
Will try to transfer it and post shortly.

Quality of cut with the blade delivered is ok, but not great, there are clearly visible cut marks on the mdf.

The things that concern me are:
- Weight  (can get used to it)
- Dust Collection (worse than my other two saws with same vac and hose, will irritate me for sure)
- Blade Wobble (not what I expected from a saw at this price point)
- Slow Spin Down (but hey, my Makita takes even longer I just wished that it would be better... )
- Shadow Cut Line not as effective in real use as I had hoped. Not bad but not a game changer.
- Factory blade cut quality (sure, I can buy a better and very expensive blade - but should I have to?) *)

So far I have mixed emotions about the sum of the parts - I would like to like it more but at the moment I can't help but feel I should have gone with the Metabo and saved a few _insert your local currency here_.
The features and the overall results so far just by cutting various materials doesn't really breathe "Made in Germany" as much as I would have hoped. From memory I was much more impressed by the KS120.

*) I did get an extra blade...

 

[pingvinlakrits]

It neither clear nor uniform in width (of course) so you need to rotate the blade and/or lower until you get the shadow of a tooth on your mark.

Will it look better (uniform) if you pull the trigger and the blade is spinning?

Both yes and no: you still need to lower the blade quite a bit to see the actual width of the blade relative to the material and your cut line. I have this on video and I think it feels riskier to have to spin up the blade and lower it - especially for bevel cuts [eek] and plunge close to the material to gauge. That's why I don't think it saves time or gives me a better user experience than with my Makita Laser which is dead on and has stayed true over the years. 

That is what I ment when I wrote "rotate the blade" I meant "spin the blade". My bad.

 

[charley1968]

Thanks for the honest review. I've been looking at the saw today and i don't remember seeing the bubbly look of the shadow line. Is it the magnification or does the line look crisper from further away? Another question: do you think the cutline will have better visibility than a laser in bright conditions i.e. on a sunny day?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Andi: the line you see is not representative of the cut line when you view it at that position. It is thinner. When you creep up on the material the line expands a little and contrast goes up (which is good).

With sun shining down on the work table / saw base I don't think the shadow cut line will be very visible. But I will have to check tomorrow. Depends on the angle of light I guess. EDIT: by that I mean that the sun will also create a shadow l which might be confusing or the sun canceling out the LED light shadow line.

It might of course be on par or perhaps even more visible than a laser and I think that at the worst case scenario we are at a point where you need to set a tooth on the cut line anyway.

The fact that you need to spin the blade, lower, maybe adjust (and wait for the blade to spin down) recheck by spinning up the blade again and lower... ...doesn't make an improvement over existing solutions, i.e. lasers or checking with the tooth/blade.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I won't be able to write more this evening, I am a done for today and need sustenance.  [big grin]

EDIT:

Demo guy also checks the cutline by almost placing the saw tooth to the material. How is this different or significantly better than checking with the tooth of the blade? He gets better dust extraction cutting wood/thicker material than I did cutting thinner material.

 

[charley1968]

Smaklig måltid!

 

[antss]

From the last video , I'd have to say that the cut quality leaves a bit to be desired. 

I can see the tear out on those boards in a tiny low res video.  Granted, that is as much about the blade as anything - but presumably it's new and was designed for the ks60 so...........

From Henrik's comments and the early videos it seems like this one is not quite fully baked yet.

 

[semenza]

I could see the tear out too, but on the fast cross cut countertop material. It looked fine on those molding miters.

BTW [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]  , nice demonstration.

Seth

 

[pingvinlakrits]

antss: the standard blade for the Kapex KS60 is 36T. Considering the slightly low-ish rev range on the saw I think the standard blade is not be the best option for fine cuts in tricky materials. It is a good blade for general wood cuts and does chew through the material well - but leaving cut marks to be smoothed out for critical cuts.

For the most part I don't think there is a problem, unless the cut edge is visible. Surface tear out is of course more of a problem.

I am guessing the 60T blade will do a better job, probably a lot better. Blade change is swift and easy to do but of course you are going to need that extra blade which does not come cheap.  But then again, if you are handling a lot of different materials you would probably have two or three blades anyway.

EDITED SPELLING (yet again)

 

[Stephen B]

re the Video.

Some Tear out factors
As most here know - Tooth count, blade diameter and sharpness,  revs and of course the timber/material  type.

I noted that compared with the moulding, with the larger timber product it was laminated and therefore there was cross/multidirectional grain. [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member] , [member=2085]Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits[/member] , [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member]

Anyway have determined that if the time comes, will get the 60 tooth blade as well.

 

[Phil Beckley]

re the Video.

Some Tear out factors
As most here know - Tooth count, blade diameter and sharpness,  revs and of course the timber/material  type.

I noted that compared with the moulding, with the larger timber product it was laminated and therefore there was cross/multidirectional grain. [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member] , [member=2085]Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits[/member] , [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member]

Anyway have determined that if the time comes, will get the 60 tooth blade as well.

.....the large section was Glu-lam beam made from Spruce so some tear out would be expected. Standard Joinery cut with the supplied blade produces an excellent cut.
( I am currently travelling with limited access to the forum but will chip in as and when I can)

 

[Phil Beckley]

I could see the tear out too, but on the fast cross cut countertop material. It looked fine on those molding miters.

BTW [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]  , nice demonstration.

Seth

Cheers Seth  [smile]

 

[Phil Beckley]

From the last video , I'd have to say that the cut quality leaves a bit to be desired. 

I can see the tear out on those boards in a tiny low res video.  Granted, that is as much about the blade as anything - but presumably it's new and was designed for the ks60 so...........

From Henrik's comments and the early videos it seems like this one is not quite fully baked yet.

.....fully baked and ready for the market - yes it is  [smile]
Rg
Phil

 

[Phil Beckley]

I won't be able to write more this evening, I am a done for today and need sustenance.  [big grin]

EDIT:

Demo guy also checks the cutline by almost placing the saw tooth to the material. How is this different or significantly better than checking with the tooth of the blade? He gets better dust extraction cutting wood/thicker material than I did cutting thinner material.

.....habit of mine - I always check the kerf line regardless of laser or LED  [smile]
Dust extraction was better as I had a 36mm hose on.
Rg
Phil

 

[Jimdude]

Uhm, what am I seeing here?

ETA: it would explain matte's problem (from the other KS60 thread):

The fence is looseable. At the top of the fence there are 4 hex bolts. I tried myself to make the kapex cut square. Tried for several ours. One time i thought it was square, but it wasn`t. When i made a cut with a piece of wood at the left side of the fence ( so the wood piece was at the left side of the blade) it was square. Butt when i made the same cut at the right side of the square it wasn`t square. I don`t know what the problem , i cannot solve the problem myself , thats why the saw will go back to festool. I think that a mitre saw at this price point must cut square. i will keep you informed about the kapex ..

 

[Phil Beckley]

Uhm, what am I seeing here?

ETA: it would explain matte's problem (from the other KS60 thread):

The fence is looseable. At the top of the fence there are 4 hex bolts. I tried myself to make the kapex cut square. Tried for several ours. One time i thought it was square, but it wasn`t. When i made a cut with a piece of wood at the left side of the fence ( so the wood piece was at the left side of the blade) it was square. Butt when i made the same cut at the right side of the square it wasn`t square. I don`t know what the problem , i cannot solve the problem myself , thats why the saw will go back to festool. I think that a mitre saw at this price point must cut square. i will keep you informed about the kapex ..

....the beam I used had been used previously for a rip cut....the chances are the HK saw was not set to square.....or I hadn't pushed it fully to the fence

The fence on the KS60 is square.
Rg
Phil
 

 

[Llap Goch]

Uhm, what am I seeing here?

Probably the same I see when I put a test piece against the 100% square fence of my Kapex.

I just do not know why you bother Phil. Just waiting for a thread on the polo top you are wearing with the Festool logo not quite parallel to you trouser belt.

 

[Jimdude]

Probably the same I see when I put a test piece against the 100% square fence of my Kapex.

I just do not know why you bother Phil. Just waiting for a thread on the polo top you are wearing with the Festool logo not quite parallel to you trouser belt.

You ~are~ aware of the concept of questions, right? Phil - who ~is~ - has answered that the testpiece was likely crooked.

I'm also certain that matte will appreciate your condescending input.