Kapex - Local Dealer or Internet?

[Sparktrician]

After watching Borders implode, I'm more and more concerned about supporting brick and mortar stores.

And if your local carriers are that rough with packages, I think that's almost worth paying the sales tax.

Not only that, Woodcraft stores are typically franchises, not corporate stores like Rockler, so there's a little more incentive for them to be helpful.

Don't get me wrong, Bob's been nice to me when I've dealt with him. He's the guy I'd go to with questions/ purchases that required a knowledgable sales person. But I can look the Woodcraft guy in the eye when I ask him what's going on with an order.

Borders imploded because their management didn't act in response to the market, unlike Barnes & Noble.  Not a problem with Festool, where the hold-up is the UL wicket.  I go to Bob to buy because I know that as soon as the item is available after I've placed the order, it's on the way to me.  In two to three days, I have the item.  With Woodcraft, it's weeks, not days, due to their order processing practices, and while the folks at the local Woodcraft stores are nice, they're not always knowledgeable when I have questions.  Then, we add in the tax issue, and two trips to the store to order and pick up the goodies.  Need I say more? 

[smile]

 

[deepcreek]

I give my local Woodcraft and Rockler stores plenty of business.  I know most of the staff by name and they're all very knowledgeable about one aspect of woodworking or another.

That being said, I don't feel obligated to buy everything from them unless I've handled it in the store and received their advice.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

I wonder how many people buy Festool online after checking them out first - maybe even demoing them -  at a bricks and mortar store.  And I wonder how Festool would fare if bricks and mortar stores stopped carrying them ? Personally, if I  am interested in buying a Festool tool and I talk to my dealer about it or check out the tools at his store in person, I feel obligated  to buy from him even if it costs me an extra 13%.  I wouldn't have been able to decide between the RO150 and the RO125, for instance, if I hadn't held them in my hands.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Just curious - For those who ordered a Kapex online, did it survive the shipping process okay?

I've seen some tools not packed as well as my brown bag lunch and others sent in seemingly indestructible boxes.

I only ask because all the major carriers have been guilty of delivering stuff that looks like they backed over it with the truck before leaving it on my porch.

My Kapex made it through UPS unharmed.  The factory puts it in a glossy box with lots of padding and then the distributor (or at least Uncle Bob), wraps another box around that.

I did find it necessary to calibrate the lasers though, not sure whether that was due to shipping or not... Not a big deal in any case

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

No more color printed box, just a regular old cardboard box with grey scale printing on it.

Good thing I still have my original box, with some people on here I could probably get 100 bucks for it. [big grin]

 

[ccarrolladams]

On Friday 8 April I drove over 2 hours (about 120 miles) to Palm Desert in support of a dealer opening in a new location. In-Touch tools has been the Festool dealer in the Palm Springs area for several years and recently moved into a store with better public visibility. The sign says it all "The Festool Store" because this is what they sell. Their new place is next door to the popular mini-mart/coffee bar where the construction pros start their day, so as they sip a coffee they can look through the show window at a whole lot of Festools, including a Kapex.

What fascinated me was the number of Kapex still in factory cartons in the store room. All of those were the printed ones. Honestly I do not know what the carton was like from my first Kapex. That was way back when they could only be sold on a certain day. By then I was a loyal customer, so although my dealer could not let me take delivery of my Kapex, they did unpack it so that while waiting a few days to physically take delivery I could fine tune the adjustments on my Kapex. During that time a few other customers were also adjusting their Kapex.

The sad fact is that most places woodworkers need to drive a long ways to find a brick and mortar Festool dealer. I know driving from Burbank to Palm Desert I passed a Rockler in Pasadena. Probably I passed other dealers. Depending on traffic Eagle Tool is 20 to 40 minutes away. By now I am almost always buying additional copies of Festools I already own, so I do not always make the drive to pick up those at Eagle. Bits, blades, abrasives and other small items they either deliver or send UPS.

There are valid reasons why Festool needs brick and mortar stores, on-line dealers and even Amazon. The customers must be served in ways that work for them.

As for the avoidance of state sales tax by ordering on-line out-of-state, this does not always work. California and most other states actually call that "sales and use tax" meaning that if the seller did not collect the tax it is still the responsibility of the buyer to pay it. Chances are strong California will not find the hobby Festool on-line buyer. However, when a business takes deductions for equipment and supplies, if the receipts do not include sales tax, then during an audit there are problems. Sure, products such as plywood and lumber used to build things for resale can be bought under our resale exemption certificate. That includes fasteners used on projects, but generally not abrasives. Each state has different rules about that and each auditor from the California Board of Equalization seems to interpret their rules differently.

No more color printed box, just a regular old cardboard box with grey scale printing on it.

Good thing I still have my original box, with some people on here I could probably get 100 bucks for it. [big grin]

 

[jmbfestool]

I wonder how many people buy Festool online after checking them out first - maybe even demoing them -  at a bricks and mortar store.   And I wonder how Festool would fare if bricks and mortar stores stopped carrying them ? Personally, if I  am interested in buying a Festool tool and I talk to my dealer about it or check out the tools at his store in person, I feel obligated  to buy from him even if it costs me an extra 13%.  I wouldn't have been able to decide between the RO150 and the RO125, for instance, if I hadn't held them in my hands.

I!  I would feel bad if I had gone into a local store felts the tools and asked questions and then gone on the internet to buy it. I just wouldnt do it UNLESS the prices higher than average but I would then give them the opportunity to match the average price I never expect a brick and mortar retailer to match an internet price but I would expect it to match other brick and mortar stores around the area. I dont mind paying normal price but I HATE paying higher price than average I feel like I am being taken for mug as I walk out the shop. 

I often do internet research youtube and many other sites and I then often buy of the internet as well I dont often go into the store and have a hands on feel unless I know I am going to buy from the store.

JMB

 

[NuggyBuggy]

There are valid reasons why Festool needs brick and mortar stores, on-line dealers and even Amazon. The customers must be served in ways that work for them.

I agree.  But I think it borders on dishonest when people check out product in their store, put their hands on it, talk to a salesperson, and maybe even demo it, with every intention of, say, ordering it from out of state in an attempt to avoid sales tax or buying it used on Craigslist.  The local dealers aren't hiring people and paying for floor space just to serve as a showroom for some far-away online dealer or a Craigslist seller.

 

[Sparktrician]

There are valid reasons why Festool needs brick and mortar stores, on-line dealers and even Amazon. The customers must be served in ways that work for them.

I agree.  But I think it borders on dishonest when people check out product in their store, put their hands on it, talk to a salesperson, and maybe even demo it, with every intention of, say, ordering it from out of state in an attempt to avoid sales tax or buying it used on Craigslist.  The local dealers aren't hiring people and paying for floor space just to serve as a showroom for some far-away online dealer or a Craigslist seller.

I'll have to say that too many times I've called ahead and been told that an item is in stock, only to get there and nobody can find the item.  "Gee, sorry you made that trip only to go away empty-handed.  We can order it for you and it will be here in ten days or two weeks."  I know that this doesn't happen to everyone.  And so, my choice is to use the Internet to my advantage. 

[smile]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

There are valid reasons why Festool needs brick and mortar stores, on-line dealers and even Amazon. The customers must be served in ways that work for them.

I agree.  But I think it borders on dishonest when people check out product in their store, put their hands on it, talk to a salesperson, and maybe even demo it, with every intention of, say, ordering it from out of state in an attempt to avoid sales tax or buying it used on Craigslist.  The local dealers aren't hiring people and paying for floor space just to serve as a showroom for some far-away online dealer or a Craigslist seller.

Kind of like test driving some different cars at different dealers?

Let the stores earn their business, if they can't they will close.

I don't like helping limp on a place that can never have stock or get anything ordered in a timely manner, hence the demise of my local dealer.

 

[sancho57]

I bought a bunch of Festool stuff from my dealer. My dealer also sell many other tools, jigs, supplies , ply and hardwood.

If I order my tools from Bob  my dealer isnt going to be hurt by it. Believe me I go in there about 2-3 times a week buying stuff.

They have great prices on things and deal mainly with professionals and serious woodworkers. For example I went to Rockler (I hate that place) on Sunday coz my supplier was closed. I needed some cab levelers. Rocklers sold them for roughly 14 bucks for a set of 4. I went to my supplier today he sold the same ones for roughly 8 bucks  a set.  Believe me my supplier does plenty of business.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Kind of like test driving some different cars at different dealers?

There's a big difference.  Car dealers are free to lower their prices and financing terms are usually involved.  Festool dealers are not and I assume no financing usually happens.  So how is a dealer in a state with sales tax going to compete with a dealer out of state who may not have to charge him tax ?

And you're not test-driving the car at the online store, who may not have to maintain a display and will not have to carry an inventory of now-devalued-as-used demonstrator tools. 

I don't like helping limp on a place that can never have stock or get anything ordered in a timely manner, hence the demise of my local dealer.

And if that's their problem, then I'd agree.  It's when people treat bricks-and-mortar stores as unpaid storefronts for widgets-r-us.com that I object. 

If I buy a Festool because I did all my own research online, I have no qualms about buying it however I can save the most money.  But if a local dealer has the tool, it's on display, I check it out and maybe even demo it, but plan all along to later buy it online from a place with no storefront to save state tax: how is the local dealer supposed to compete ?

 

[deepcreek]

If I buy a Festool because I did all my own research online, I have no qualms about buying it however I can save the most money.  But if a local dealer has the tool, it's on display, I check it out and maybe even demo it, but plan all along to later buy it online from a place with no storefront to save state tax: how is the local dealer supposed to compete ?

I totally agree.  I have not checked a Kapex out at either Rockler or Woodcraft.  I saw one demoed when they first came out by a Festool rep at a store event but I couldn't tell you which one.  I've spoken with other carpenter friends about theirs.  Most recently, I saw Gary Katz using one at a Katz Roadshow event which is sponsored in part by Festool.  If I decide to buy it at a local store, I'll go fondle it there first.

 

[Marc2010]

I went to a smell Festool demo about 45 minutes north of me and looked and tried everything. I was sold on the Kapex and placed my order. The Kapex, 36mm hose, Y adapter, ect... $1500.00 +. My order went in with others and was taking longer then I wanted. Did I need it (NO) did I want it home and to play with it (YES). about 3 weeks has gone by and I was in Grand Rapids MI at a big Woodcraft store and they had everything that I had ordered in stock just sitting there.
Now when I place my order up north I did not have to put any $ down.
While in the Woodcraft store in GR I called my guy to see if my order was in yet.........no he said.  For a minute I debated on buying everything right then and taking it home, but then I thought I can't do that to him he didn't even ask me for money to order it and he being a small business would have to hang on to it or lose money to return it.
I'm sure one way or another someone has done that to us and it did not feel good or right  [unsure]. I chose to do the right thing and wait for my guy, and on my 2 hr drive back home I got a call from my guy saying the truck has just dropped off my order.   I am so glad that I listened to myself.
The next day I drove up north and gladly picked up my order with my head held high. You know the Mgr that sold me the tools was just as happy for me to get the tools as I was.  ( I kept my Woodcraft visit to myself)
I dont want to see another vacant building on our town.
 Try to support local businesses if you can.

Marc

 

[jmbfestool]

.

Is that  .  to get peoples attention??? lol  [eek]

JMB

 

[GruntSgt]

I gt good news froms Steve in Henderson, Nv. today. There will be a Festool vendor here in town and he's actually in Henderson this week for training. The guy does my sharpening so this will be good. My only concern is his sharpening/machine shop is loaded to the rafters so I don't know where he'll stock Festools without getting a larger space.
He's a great guy and will get my business and I wish him success.

 

[Joe Jensen]

I guess I'm more Darwinian.  There is a local branch of a well known brick and motar store that I try to buy from as much as possible to help keep them alive.  I've purchased about 1/2 my Festools from Bob and half from this store.  I ordered a cordless drill kit from them, cringing at the sales tax impact.  After 3 weeks I called to see why my drill wasn't in yet and I was told it hadn't been ordered yet because the owner was waiting to put together a larger Festool order so he could get free shipping.  REALLY, on a full margin product like Festool he has to wait to save $8 on shipping a $600 kit?  Must be at least $200 of margin in that drill kit.  On top of this, I prepaid and they charged my credit card.  I cancelled the order and had one in 2 days from Bob.  I posted a rant here and Festool and the store owner contacted me and he was incredibly indignant.

I still try to pick up consumables at the store but frankly it's really hit and miss. 

 

[sroxberg]

At least in KS if you make an internet purchase and don't pay sales tax you are still legally supposed to self remit the taxes on your annual tax form, or if you have a business as a use tax.

With budget crunches coming to states I expect them to start to look at this stream of revenue and audit for it.

So in reality for me at least I pay the same whether it's local or shipped in from out of state.

 

[Bob Marino]

I guess I'm more Darwinian.  There is a local branch of a well known brick and motar store that I try to buy from as much as possible to help keep them alive.  I've purchased about 1/2 my Festools from Bob and half from this store.  I ordered a cordless drill kit from them, cringing at the sales tax impact.  After 3 weeks I called to see why my drill wasn't in yet and I was told it hadn't been ordered yet because the owner was waiting to put together a larger Festool order so he could get free shipping.  REALLY, on a full margin product like Festool he has to wait to save $8 on shipping a $600 kit?  Must be at least $200 of margin in that drill kit.  On top of this, I prepaid and they charged my credit card.   I cancelled the order and had one in 2 days from Bob.  I posted a rant here and Festool and the store owner contacted me and he was incredibly indignant.

I still try to pick up consumables at the store but frankly it's really hit and miss. 

Hey Joe,

Thanks for giving me a shot at it!

Bob

 

[sancho57]

Put it this way, I had a question about a order I had made from Bob. It was Sat nite around 7PM PST. I sent him a email and left a voice message on his phone. He called me back with in a half hour and got the entire thing resolved and even got a follow up email.

You try to get that from a brick and morter.

You try to get that from just about an business.

I got a couple of more things in mind I want to get.

Guess where Im gonna get them.