Kapex motor failure or other electrical failure

[Rip Van Winkle]

I have some older Flex tools that came with older "manuals" that likely dated from before Flex was purchased by Porter Cable.

The manuals list the number of hours of use before the tools should be regreased and overhauled, and while it varies by tool, I believe shortest number of hours listed was 1,000 for a concrete grinder, and I believe one tool was listed at 10,000 hours of use before it required regular service.

Newer manuals from Flex no longer seem to list service hour intervals.

Other German tool manufacturers like Bosch and Fein also used to list service intervals in their older manuals, but I think those two have stopped as well. 

From what numbers I recall, tools made for cutting, grinding, or drilling concrete and cement and other masonry products tended to have much shorter service intervals listed than tools for wood, so the numbers the OP posted are probably realistic, if not lower than what should be expected for a saw made for cutting wood products. I doubt a saw made for cutting wood would be exposed to as bad a type of work fatigue as the constant vibration of a hammer drill, and abrasive dust from concrete.

 

[Naildrivingman]

Do people actually use their saw for this many hours? Seems high to me, even for professional use. Likely bearings and brushes would go out and I never read that much about those types of issues.

No disrespect to the OP or this thread, just an observation. To me working with a saw does not mean continuous use and getting several hundred hours of use measuring time while the saw is cutting seems like a high number and would take several years. Granted I am not a professional so would love to hear others weigh in on that point.

I have no baseline for the three groups of use, but simply considered a typical 2080 hour work year and started at 10%, went to 11%-30% and finally above 30%. It was not my intention (and my apologies for not being clear) to suggest by these scales that the saws were running 100% of the time in each of these categories. IMHO it is harder on a tool to start and stop several times for a few minutes versus run wide open for the same amount of time. Yes, bearings and brushes are more susceptible to damage in the wide open categories, but I would think that the windings, capacitors, resistors...etc are compromised by the induction of the motor.

As to the question of using these saws this much, I know of a cabinet company that uses the KS 120 for all of its on site installations as well as its cross cuts in fabrication. What they do is buy a new KS every year for the shop and retire the shop unit to the field and finally sell the oldest field unit.  They have only one KS in the shop and I have to believe that saw is easily used for 700 hours per year. I wish I knew someone there better, I would ask how their saws have fared.

 

[Naildrivingman]

I'm agree with Birdhunter.
Ten years medium use. No problems. I ALWAYS use with 10 gauge cords if needed.
"Knot on wood"
Rick

I agree with you on the cords. I really think that improper or underrated cord size could be at the core of some tool failures.

 

[Naildrivingman]

As previously suggested there must be a No-Problem option. You need to have some idea of problem/no-problem ratio.

Done, thanks for the tip and sorry for the omission originally.

 

[Naildrivingman]

This poll is useless.  It does not restrict it to voters actually OWNING a Kapex, voting only once, or any set of verification.  What are you hoping to get out of this other than bashing?

I've had a Kapex for 3 years and am one of the many having no issues.  I've read about those that have had issues and agree that maybe Festool hasn't been as forthcoming as we'd like, but come on.

I've got no issue with bashing Festool or any other company for product or quality issues, but this strikes me as piling on.

Yes, I made some mistakes as to how the poll was created and framed, for that I can say that my intent was not to skew the results in one way or another. All I can say at this point is as follows:
1. I hope those who vote do so with honor and only vote once.
2. It was not my intention to limit this poll to current or past KS owners, simply members who know of a KS motor failure. The flaw that I created was the hours used if the person answering is not the owner, he may not know that info.
3. It is not my intent to bash FT or anyone.

 

[Holmz]

...
1) Then the data has to be honestly analyzed and reported. This is complex hard work to be done correctly.

2) Unless a poll is constructed so as to yield accurate and meaningful data to Festool engineers, it's just not truly useful.
...

Festool knows how many saws they sold, how many came back, and which ones came back more than once. If they do not have that data then I doubt they can work with the poll results.

1) So what then? Do not even try?
Or what dishonesty is anticipated? And by whom?

2) Was the poll actually designed to aid the Festool engineers?

As Festool owns the Forum they have the right to suspend the poll.
But that decision also has some potential for seeming to be lacking transparency. And there is no requirement to be transparent.

 

[AlexThePalex]

But that decision also has some potential for seeming to be lacking transparency. And there is no requirement to be transparent.

I don't think there's any lack of transparency on this forum regarding Kapex issues.

 

[Jaybolishes]

Every festool user I know, only about 10, have never heard of this forum. But I find it interesting that when I find a festool user, they don't seem to know about the Fog.  I think it's not a stretch to assume that most contractors who use festools for their profession are not the types who use this sort of resource.  The ones who are on the fog seem to be mostly guys who use festool in their leisure or for small projects every now and then. Yes there are guys on here who do build homes and use their festools a lot every day, but there's a lot of guys claiming they use their saw a lot and I don't think that they are realizing what "a lot" truly means.  What I want to know is what's happening to saws with heavy use and I think the average fogger would not fall into this category.  It's still a great thing to start a poll though.  Saws failing from occasional use are an embarrassment to any saw company and the engineers designing that saw.
    I'd like to see a poll on how many non-festool saws have burnt up motors.  Has anyone had a Bosch, dewalt, hitachi or other saw burnup, then get the saw fixed and have it happen again? Which has happened many times on here with the kapex.

 

[Longhair]

I don't own a kapex and am a professional builder. My primary saw is an old hitachi. I bought it used about 25 years ago. I use this saw daily, many hours a day, day in and day out. I've had it rebuilt 3 times(actually twice, but the second time didn't take and had to have it done again). If I spent that kind of money on a saw and it didn't last 20 years, I'd be most disappointed.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Every festool user I know, only about 10, have never heard of this forum. But I find it interesting that when I find a festool user, they don't seem to know about the Fog.  I think it's not a stretch to assume that most contractors who use festools for their profession are not the types who use this sort of resource.  The ones who are on the fog seem to be mostly guys who use festool in their leisure or for small projects every now and then. Yes there are guys on here who do build homes and use their festools a lot every day, but there's a lot of guys claiming they use their saw a lot and I don't think that they are realizing what "a lot" truly means.  What I want to know is what's happening to saws with heavy use and I think the average fogger would not fall into this category.  It's still a great thing to start a poll though.  Saws failing from occasional use are an embarrassment to any saw company and the engineers designing that saw.
    I'd like to see a poll on how many non-festool saws have burnt up motors.  Has anyone had a Bosch, dewalt, hitachi or other saw burnup, then get the saw fixed and have it happen again? Which has happened many times on here with the kapex.

I am a professional carpenter and do everything,  new home construction, remodels, additions, trim and cabinets.  I've had a dw716 for 9 years, it had a very hard life and keeps running.  Around Christmas time I ordered a Kapex with ug stand from my local supplier and could not bring myself to buy it with all the motor issues on Fog, instagram and friends so I cancelled my order.  I bought another dw 716 xps bc I know it will last and take the abuse of everyday use.  If the Kapex was more reliable I would buy one.  A saw that cost 3-4x as a typical saw it should last and not be scared everytime I would pull the trigger. 

 

[mikeyr]

I'm one of the more vocal critics of this saw and FT's handling of the issue - and I don't necessarily view this as piling on.

Maybe we need to pile on until Festool publicly admits the saw has a problem or shows us data that it does not have a problem.

I play with cars and I learned quickly that on web forums, people don't come around and say "gee, I have this car x years and never a problem" but they do come on and say "what a piece of junk, I bought this car x time ago and its already broken".  That allows a negative view or belief to build up and once that negative belief is allowed to grow, its near impossible to reverse.  Only problem is, in the real world the car is still a good car, its only on the net its bad.

I see the same thing with the Kapex, I am in the market for a new saw,  in January I actually bought a Kapex from my local dealer and before it arrived I cancelled the order, why ? because I read here how bad they are.  Is it real ? or perception ? I don't know, but I can't risk that many dollars on a saw that may or may not hold up.

Festool HAS the information and unfortunately their silence implies we are right and they are scared to admit it, so maybe we do need to pile it on and wake Festool up.

Last thing I have to say about this, Festool talk to your customers, or someone else will.  I will likely get the corded version of this saw in July...http://toolguyd.com/makita-18v-x2-b...06-with-bluetooth-dust-collection-activation/  and I don't care for the bluetooth stuff, but its a copy of the Kapex and should be quite good.

 

[Naildrivingman]

Thanks to all so far who have replied and voted. It appears that all who have voted, did so only once. Thank you for your honor. Th main reason I created the poll was for my own information. I have a KS 120 that is coming 3 years old and I am getting a little nervous that it may go poof. I wish I could afford a backup KS, but I can't. I really like the tool for many reasons, not simply because it is green and black. Keep your answers and votes coming. Thanks for your participation.

 

[TinyShop]

Yikes, a 30% failure rate (even one born from a narrow poll like this) doesn't bode well. What say you Festool?

 

[kevinculle]

This in no way can be interpreted as defining a numerical failure rate.  In order for a poll to be statistically unbiased the answers must be drawn from a random sample of owners.  In an open poll like this those with problems will naturally be far overrepresented and those who are satisfied are unmotivated to participate.  My statistical take would be 9 total Kapex failures reported...may or may not represent an unusual failure rate.

 

[Holmz]

This in no way can be interpreted as defining a numerical failure rate.  In order for a poll to be statistically unbiased the answers must be drawn from a random sample of owners.  In an open poll like this those with problems will naturally be far overrepresented and those who are satisfied are unmotivated to participate.  My statistical take would be 9 total Kapex failures reported...may or may not represent an unusual failure rate.

Maybe it is providing the OP with what he wanted.
And possibly prividing more insight than from the factory.

 

[Addcon]

My Kapex has had three motor failures. All occurred when using with the CT26.  Please note the UL Listing on the CT 26 says not to excede 3.5 amps or something similar. The Kapex I believe is 13 amps. I have  also experienced a motor failure of my TS55. Again while using the CT26. Always plugged into a good power source near the electrical panel. If an extension cord was required I would not exceed 50 ft on a custom 10 gauge cord. My therory...  two much amperage is being required when running with the vacuum. These tools are engineered to run on 220 volt electricity and converted to 110 for USA users. Was told by festool that I should only use the vacuum in short term applications. Not for all day work. I am a finish carpenter and this is how I make a living. Dust collector is why I spent the money on all my festool tools. About $10 K invested now in festool and afraid to use any of it.

 

[Naildrivingman]

Thanks for voting. I thought I would bump this one more time.