It is amazing to me reading this thread that since Aug of last year NEW2Fes has not tried out the Kapex. Same goes with any of those who poohoo the Kapex. They all have the same ability to try the saw for 30 days and see for themselves. There's a old saying "put up or shut up"!!
KAPEX PRECISION OF CUT AND ACCURACY VS???
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WPeters
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Kev said:
And I consider the pleasure of working with top notch tools! After all, we work a tremendous portion of our lives, we may as well enjoy the experience the best we can
. For me, that includes working with the top quality equipment in my field as much as possible. It also projects a positive image to clients, etc.
JoshG
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I just recently purchased a Kapex and I struggled for the past few months on what to by. I am a hobbyist woodworker so I don't make a living from my tools, but I do like to buy the best that is available, which is why I like Festool. Beyond the fact that Festool makes an amazing product, I bought the Kapex for a few reasons. First is the dust collection, which was the biggest determining factor. I want to be able to woodwork for the next 40+ years, so being healthy by reducing dust in the workshop is a huge priority. Second is accuracy and the dual lasers, not too much to say here that hasn't already been said. Finally is that Festool tools retain their value. If I was to buy a Bosch or Dewalt and for some reason decided (or needed) to sell the saw down the road I would be lucky to get half what I paid. With the Kapex, I expect that I could sell it for 75%-80% of what I bought it for (at least that is what I have seen them sell for used). Yes this saw is expensive, but I firmly believe that it is worth it.
Neathawk Designs
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The accessories is also something to consider. Whether they are aftermarket, or festool brand, festool has decent accessories. I love my multiblades brackets and home made wings. Try putting those on your dewalt.
I had a ridigd in the past (i axtually have 2 ridgid saws) and would never make indoor cuts with it... I use the Kapex indoors all the time. The Kapex has some better safety features than my old ridgid that would make it more difficult to accidentally power the saw and cut yourself. This is important to me because I have young kids (not that I let them play with the saw!). Its also a more quiet setup, which I'm sure customers appreciate. A standard shop vac and saw can be quite loud. Dust collection is especially important to me.... Especially when working in a customer's house. I don't want to be opening and closing the door all day. Your either letting heat out, or the air conditioning.... Sometimes they have dogs or cats that you don't want to accidentally let out... Not to mention tracking in mud, snow, dirt....
Blade deflection is especially important to me when having to shave a small amount of material off a piece of hardwood - especially if its for a cabinet door or face frame Where cut quality is obvious. I haven't used a saw that can do this as well as the Kapex.
I had a ridigd in the past (i axtually have 2 ridgid saws) and would never make indoor cuts with it... I use the Kapex indoors all the time. The Kapex has some better safety features than my old ridgid that would make it more difficult to accidentally power the saw and cut yourself. This is important to me because I have young kids (not that I let them play with the saw!). Its also a more quiet setup, which I'm sure customers appreciate. A standard shop vac and saw can be quite loud. Dust collection is especially important to me.... Especially when working in a customer's house. I don't want to be opening and closing the door all day. Your either letting heat out, or the air conditioning.... Sometimes they have dogs or cats that you don't want to accidentally let out... Not to mention tracking in mud, snow, dirt....
Blade deflection is especially important to me when having to shave a small amount of material off a piece of hardwood - especially if its for a cabinet door or face frame Where cut quality is obvious. I haven't used a saw that can do this as well as the Kapex.
Wonderwino
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My Kapex is on the way, just ahead of the price increase. I already have a Bosch 5412L that is a good saw, but it is very heavy and getting harder for me to throw in the back of the pickup.
I think a lot is to be said for the pleasure of using better tools. They don't hold you back; a craftsperson's skill is the force behind perfection; fine tools can enhance the skill, but not overcome a lack of knowledge in the art.
I think a lot is to be said for the pleasure of using better tools. They don't hold you back; a craftsperson's skill is the force behind perfection; fine tools can enhance the skill, but not overcome a lack of knowledge in the art.
wrightwoodwork
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Good tools make a good craftsman and a good craftsman makes good tools
Mitchy5104 said:
I have had a Bosch 12" Compound slider for almost a decade now. At the time of purchase it was one of the most expensive out there (not having heard of the Kapex yet). I get unquestionably satisfactory results every time with one caveat. From time to time things will shift or vibration in the back of my truck will ocassionally knock it out of alignment. As a matter of habit, I 'flip check" on my first cut ofter transport. To buy this (equivalent) saw today it would be roughly 1/2 the cost of the Kapex.
While I do not yet own a Kapex, I have used one numerous times, and every time I think WOW. I can clearly see, for me, the value in it. Even at 2x the cost of the borg competitors.
My Bosch with its stand brackets weighs in at ~75+ pounds. The Kapex comes in at 1/3 less(with the same brackets). Quite honestly, if I had just 1$ for everytime I picked up my Bosch and thought "this thing is a heavy beast" or "dang, I should get a laborer for this" or alas, "I wish this was a Kapex", I could own 3 Kapex by now!
To suggest that one will get similar results with both is completely accurate, while at the same time being complete hogwash.
I know too many carpenters that have no idea how the bevel operates on their saw.
Why?
Because it is such a pain in the backside to use the bevel function of the tool that they work AROUND it! That means that they, or quite possibly you have paid, albiet at a `discount`, for a function that they hate and/or refuse to use. Festool may charge more for the incorporation of that particular function but at least it is operator friendly, fast, and repeatably accurate on the first attempt (presuming a modicum of experience with the tool).
So, yeah, they do "the exact same thing"... NOT!
Mitchy5104
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listing price for kapex is now $1694 plus tax at lee valley. Absolutely crazy price for a glorified chop saw. Every single one of the arguments made for spending this kind of money on this is down right ridiculous! Festool could make a $600 screwdriver and you people would be going crazy over how amazing it is. From what i see of this site, it is mostly tool collectors rather than actual carpenters or woodworkers.
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Mitchy5104 said:
Sorry you feel that way, but if you don't want to purchase Festool stuff then...don't! There's no reason to demean the people on this forum who like the product.
If you want to pick a fight, go find another place to do it. This forum is not the place.
shed9
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Mitchy5104 said:
Granted, its a high cost for essentially a chop saw. However the very post two posts behind your own is from an actual woodworker who stated a real world view based on experience which pretty much ratified the other comments you feel are unfounded.
I can personally see your point to some degree just think you could have worded it a little different with some respect to other views.
Mitchy5104
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If this saw was the exact same saw and was manufactured by makita, I'm guessing none of you would own it. I think for most of you having the festool logo on the tool means everything. I guess what i'm saying i think that buying all this festool stuff appears to be more about vanity than actual usage.
But that' s the point Mitchy. Neither Makita nor any other manufacturer makes a saw as good. At any price. I am a real working carpenter and have the Kapex. I wish it wasn't so expensive, but the features and the quality and the warranty make it the best. I also have other brands, which i like, but they are nowhere near as good as the kapex.
I actually signed up just to post a reply to this thread.
I'm a carpenter that uses Festools at home and work. I remember seeing them at Lee Valley and also thinking that they were way overpriced. Then I took a job working for a guy who has a pretty decent "collection" of Festool products, and within a couple weeks of using them, I started buying them as well.
I don't think a Festool tool is great just because of the brand. I think some Festool stuff seems silly (to ME), like the Multi Function Stool. But it's probably not a bad product -- I just can't justify spending $400 on a stool when I don't really need one, at any price. Just an example.
My point is, just because *you* think the Kapex (or anything, really) is ridiculous, doesn't make it so. I've used other saws for base and case with excellent results. A good blade and setting the saw up well makes a big difference in a cheaper saw. But I like not having to clean up nearly as much afterward. And I like being able to put it tight to a wall. And I like that the wings can support your work piece everywhere, unlike the cheap-but-pretty good Dewalt stand. And because of that, you can set up a stop almost anywhere for repeat cuts.
Do all those reasons (or others, as it's subjective) make it worth the extra cost? Apparently so for a lot of people own them. Apparently not, for you. I don't do finish work every day, and maybe the tool isn't making me money any differently than a Dewalt (or whatever), but I prefer it to any other saw I've used, and am happy with my purchase.
I'm a carpenter that uses Festools at home and work. I remember seeing them at Lee Valley and also thinking that they were way overpriced. Then I took a job working for a guy who has a pretty decent "collection" of Festool products, and within a couple weeks of using them, I started buying them as well.
I don't think a Festool tool is great just because of the brand. I think some Festool stuff seems silly (to ME), like the Multi Function Stool. But it's probably not a bad product -- I just can't justify spending $400 on a stool when I don't really need one, at any price. Just an example.
My point is, just because *you* think the Kapex (or anything, really) is ridiculous, doesn't make it so. I've used other saws for base and case with excellent results. A good blade and setting the saw up well makes a big difference in a cheaper saw. But I like not having to clean up nearly as much afterward. And I like being able to put it tight to a wall. And I like that the wings can support your work piece everywhere, unlike the cheap-but-pretty good Dewalt stand. And because of that, you can set up a stop almost anywhere for repeat cuts.
Do all those reasons (or others, as it's subjective) make it worth the extra cost? Apparently so for a lot of people own them. Apparently not, for you. I don't do finish work every day, and maybe the tool isn't making me money any differently than a Dewalt (or whatever), but I prefer it to any other saw I've used, and am happy with my purchase.
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Mitchy,
There are plenty of pros on this site. Many of them post regularly about the use of Festool tools as well as other brands. They take the time to share their techniques and experience. There are also many hobbyists that do fine work (as good or better than the pros) and also share their knowledge. If you read posts on FOG you will also find many in both camps that have stated that a particular Festool product is not to their liking or worth the money to them. That's fine .................. what works for some doesn't work for others. It seems from some of your other posts that you did keep some of the Festool products that you purchased, and so those particular products apparently work for you? I have not seen other members belittle the reasons that you kept certain tools that you find useful despite the high price. Please stop putting down other peoples perfectly good reasons to own and use a Kapex. The Kapex is not the saw for you , but for many it does what they need for the work they do.
Lets not have this continue / become a spitting match.
Seth
There are plenty of pros on this site. Many of them post regularly about the use of Festool tools as well as other brands. They take the time to share their techniques and experience. There are also many hobbyists that do fine work (as good or better than the pros) and also share their knowledge. If you read posts on FOG you will also find many in both camps that have stated that a particular Festool product is not to their liking or worth the money to them. That's fine .................. what works for some doesn't work for others. It seems from some of your other posts that you did keep some of the Festool products that you purchased, and so those particular products apparently work for you? I have not seen other members belittle the reasons that you kept certain tools that you find useful despite the high price. Please stop putting down other peoples perfectly good reasons to own and use a Kapex. The Kapex is not the saw for you , but for many it does what they need for the work they do.
Lets not have this continue / become a spitting match.
Seth
Mitchy5104 said:
Mitchy5104,
For me that is not the case at all. I don't drink the kool-aid. I have purchased certain Festool items and returned them under the 30-day deal.
I did however point out a glaring difference between the Kapex and all others SCMS's out there, that being the bevel function. I have yet to come across another saw on the market that even comes close. When using my Bosch I am about 5x more likely to bevel a cut than when I am using a Dewalt, due to it's front mounted bevel release lever. I HATE the tap tap tapping it to get it exactly where I want it because there is no micro adjustment. As other have stated, it's a lottery when it comes to repeatability, just better odds than most. With the Kapex, it is a level of ease that is unsurpassed!
It would be all to easy for one to say "well I never use the bevel anyway". If one truly doesn't, then there is no need for a SCMS in the first place (more saw than need), a regular miter saw will suffice and one can buy them all day long for $200-$300. But first one must ask the question "Why don't I ever use the bevel"? If it is because the need never comes up, then the answer would be `too much saw for the tasking`. However, if it is because using the bevel function is more aggravation than it is worth, then it is high time for one to consider the value of their value priced saw.
30 pounds lighter,...... speaks for itself. Unless of course you like to carry your saw in lieu of a gym membership.
Although I have never done a field recalibration on a Kapex, I have read the manual on it. I'll take that procedure over my Bosch any day of the week!
How about the fact that you can set-up a foot closer to the wall. if it fits there, it can cut there. No saw will work in a galley kitchen like a Kapex. Period.
I think that when you have the opportunity to give a SCMS an honest workout, give the Kapex it's 30 day trial. It would be a good time to send in one of your 87 Dewalts for factory service. [see what I just did there? I showed you how to test a saw for free AND the Dewalt service dept at the same time (and NO Dewalt factory service is NOT as good as Festool's)].
While of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and you certainly are no exception. My opinion is that it is time for you to put up the cake and see if it is in fact not worth the money to you. Else you are just trolling.
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broseiden said:
Here you go
https://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?pid=769204&name=DWC-cordless-drywall-screwdrivers-DWC-18-2500-Li-4-2-Set-GB
[big grin]
Seth
