Kapex table flatness

[live4ever]

I've had my Kapex for a few weeks and really enjoying it.  However, in building a cutting station for it I've come to notice that the table is not flat.  A Lee Valley straightedge placed across the table shows that the edges of the table are high, causing a 0.05" (~1/16") gap in the middle between the straightedge and table.  This is without the saw bolted down.

Firstly, is this normal?  I've seen intimated in other forum posts that this is intentional?  It definitely has implications for being able to level cutting station surfaces to the saw table.  If I level them based on a straightedge placed all the way across, they will be too short for workpieces that don't span the entire length of the Kapex's table.  Cuts would also be expected to be slightly off 90 if the workpiece doesn't span the whole table. 

Secondly, it seems to eliminate true zero-clearance (with a user-made insert) unless the insert is shimmed up 1/16" proud of the surrounding table surface.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Jeff2413]

I too have noticed the same issue.  Never put a straight edge on the table but there are 2 things I have noticed.  First, when cutting short pcs of material and too experience a slight rocking of the material.  Secondly, when I clamp a pc of 1x4 across the bed of the saw to use as my crown stop, it's nearly impossible to rotate the saw from 0 degrees to whatever.  This tells me the bed has to be slightly higher than the fixed portion of the saw.  I'm going to be set up tomorrow and will check the saw more closely.  I absolutely love this saw and want it to be as near perfect as possible.

 

[Kev]

I certainly haven't noticed this and although I haven't specifically checked - I thought I would have noticed that level of error.

I'll be checking next chance I get.

 

[peter halle]

I checked mine with a straightedge yesterday when the saw was sitting on the front seat of my truck in the rotated storage position and did not have the gap.  I went out to check it just now and  [doh] realized that I left it at the shop yesterday.  I would suggest that you contact Festool on Monday and ask the service department.  The phone number is on the label on your Kapex.

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

I just checked and everything is coplanar here.

Tom

 

[lambeater]

Mine is the same, I have also found that you cannot bolt it down as this will distort the base further. I also have the ug extensions bolted to my station without the legs fitted, Problem is the plates that are level are not the same height as the saw base hense one end now sits higher. Still able to make accurate cuts at the moment until I come up with a fix.

Lambeater

 

[Holzhacker]

Interesting that this should come up now, very timely. I bought the Kapex a couple months ago and hadn't noticed anything. However a couple weeks ago I bought the UG extensions.
I haven't had much time lately so last weekend I set up the Kapex and UG stand. Once again not much time so I figured I'd just do a basic set-up to get the hang of it and then dial in later.
I ended up spending a bit more time than I could afford because I noticed the same problem as mentioned by OP.
- Clear height difference between the rotating center base area and the end base areas of the Kapex. A very shy, less than 1/16". Probably not a big deal since I didn't even notice when using the Kapex on the trim job I bought it for.
- This next thing really bugs me though and shouldn't be. The left wing sits 1/16" higher than the Kapex base. The right wing sits 1/16" longer than the Kapex base. OR vice-versa can't remember right now. This is definitely some bad BS.
I haven't had time since last weekend to look again at any of it, just too busy. I'm hoping there are some adjustment screws or something on the wing attachments. If not, thats a real problem. I'm hoping I'll have some time tomorrow to look into this more.

 

[lambeater]

Interesting that this should come up now, very timely. I bought the Kapex a couple months ago and hadn't noticed anything. However a couple weeks ago I bought the UG extensions.
I haven't had much time lately so last weekend I set up the Kapex and UG stand. Once again not much time so I figured I'd just do a basic set-up to get the hang of it and then dial in later.
I ended up spending a bit more time than I could afford because I noticed the same problem as mentioned by OP.
- Clear height difference between the rotating center base area and the end base areas of the Kapex. A very shy, less than 1/16". Probably not a big deal since I didn't even notice when using the Kapex on the trim job I bought it for.
- This next thing really bugs me though and shouldn't be. The left wing sits 1/16" higher than the Kapex base. The right wing sits 1/16" longer than the Kapex base. OR vice-versa can't remember right now. This is definitely some bad BS.
I haven't had time since last weekend to look again at any of it, just too busy. I'm hoping there are some adjustment screws or something on the wing attachments. If not, thats a real problem. I'm hoping I'll have some time tomorrow to look into this more.

When you say the left wing are you refering to the left ug extension. I have taken the legs off my extension to bench mount and it does indeed sit high.

Lambeater

 

[live4ever]

Thanks for the thoughts gang.  I'll give Festool a call and see what they say.  I don't think the table should be like this as I'm finding it does actually throw the squareness of the saw off ever so slightly.  Not as big of a deal with trimwork, but since half of what I got the saw for is renovation/trim work and the other half is "fine" woodworking, I would like to be able to depend on those 45s being dead nuts on regardless of whether or not the workpiece spans the entire table.

 

[lambeater]

Thanks for the thoughts gang.  I'll give Festool a call and see what they say.  I don't think the table should be like this as I'm finding it does actually throw the squareness of the saw off ever so slightly.  Not as big of a deal with trimwork, but since half of what I got the saw for is renovation/trim work and the other half is "fine" woodworking, I would like to be able to depend on those 45s being dead nuts on regardless of whether or not the workpiece spans the entire table.

Please post results.

thx
Lambeater

 

[peter halle]

As a follow-up to my previous post, while at the shop yesterday I checked mine in all rotated positions.  Mine is flat.

Peter

 

[Jeff2413]

I checked mine yesterday with a Stabila level.  Right side is perfect.  Left side is low.  The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is the fact I have it bolted to a pc of 3/4 baltic birch to sit on my Sawhelper.  I didn't have any sockets with me yesterday but I am going to loosen them and see if that has any affect on the flatness.  I can't imagine that saw can be torgued by a 1/4" bolt but maybe it can.

 

[lambeater]

I checked mine yesterday with a Stabila level.  Right side is perfect.  Left side is low.  The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is the fact I have it bolted to a pc of 3/4 baltic birch to sit on my Sawhelper.  I didn't have any sockets with me yesterday but I am going to loosen them and see if that has any affect on the flatness.  I can't imagine that saw can be torgued by a 1/4" bolt but maybe it can.

Jeff it sure can, mine did the same. I did drill my counter top so that the rubber feet drop into holes like on the mft and the saw sits down on the base tabs. Have bolts thru the bolting holts but cannot tighten as it will flex the base. Just snug them up.

thx
Lambeater

 

[Jeff2413]

Thats good to know.  I'm going to take care of this today.  Just started a big kitchen and there is a lot of molding to be cut.  Thanks a lot!

 

[tiralie]

Mine is coplanar when the miter is set to 90degrees. It usually rests on it's MFT table, but not bolted or held down. The table is on a relatively even floor but it's not perfect. However after I read the OP's post I did check the table with a LV straight edge. When I turn to the left a full 50 degrees I am .009" off on the left hand side and when I turn to the right a full 60degrees the right hand table is off by .024". This seems reasonable to me. I haven't found it affects my accuracy or rather lack there of.
Tim

 

[Jeff2413]

Well folks I took my Kapex off the plywood that rests on the Sawhelper quiet confident that this would take care of problem.  No sir.  It didn't change things at all.  I did some more investigation and it appears that its perfect at 90 degrees, and miter right, but off by a heavy 1/32" when miter left.  I'm going to stop at Woodwerks where I bought it and see what they have to say.  I'm not sure how much this is hurting anything as far as accuracy but I do know this.  For $1350 it should be perfect and that difference in height can cause pinching when cutting long bevels. 

 

[ScotF]

Interesting that this should come up now, very timely. I bought the Kapex a couple months ago and hadn't noticed anything. However a couple weeks ago I bought the UG extensions.
I haven't had much time lately so last weekend I set up the Kapex and UG stand. Once again not much time so I figured I'd just do a basic set-up to get the hang of it and then dial in later.
I ended up spending a bit more time than I could afford because I noticed the same problem as mentioned by OP.
- Clear height difference between the rotating center base area and the end base areas of the Kapex. A very shy, less than 1/16". Probably not a big deal since I didn't even notice when using the Kapex on the trim job I bought it for.
- This next thing really bugs me though and shouldn't be. The left wing sits 1/16" higher than the Kapex base. The right wing sits 1/16" longer than the Kapex base. OR vice-versa can't remember right now. This is definitely some bad BS.
I haven't had time since last weekend to look again at any of it, just too busy. I'm hoping there are some adjustment screws or something on the wing attachments. If not, thats a real problem. I'm hoping I'll have some time tomorrow to look into this more.

I had this issue with my UG extensions -- my table is flat across the saw, but the right side V channel is a little lower than the left side.  I had to shim my left side extensions with some business cards to get it perfectly level and flush to the table and I had to grind the top of the plate of my right extension to remove a little material so that I could get it set level to the base.  It was a tedious process, but now everything is perfectly flat and level across the entire length.  Before I would have the edge of a board catch slightly when sliding it from left to right.  What is weird is that I had to shim my right crown stop extension to get it perfectly flush to the top of the saw, but had to do nothing on the left crown extension and my guess is that the plastic v-groove on the crown-stops was milled a little thinner on one than the other. 

Scot

 

[rickets]

If you do a check, I had made mention of this issue a while back.  I had the two sections checked by a machine shop (invested another $250) and re-ground for this.  I did ask them if it was out of plane- nope.  It was dead on and they just took off .005 off of both pieces, which actually helped in squaring the two bases up.

When you guys do the check, you need to have the head of the saw extended all of the way out.  The miter base 'flexes' when you have the saw head all the way out.  It flexes the most when its all the way back and the head is up, ready to make a cut.

There is a minute amount of play between the miter base and the saw table because of the spring washer festool uses.  I replaced mine with a needle bearing washer and tightened it down to where there is a balance between flex and rotation.  I currently have my saw on the UG cart, and my table is fairly straight, though when stow the saw head all the way back, it does bring up the miter base up just a hair.  I also did the cut test for 90* and pretty much on target.

I did shim up the UG extension arms using UHMW sheets, but that's with the miter slot modification.  The original didn't need any shimming.  Be careful though, on those extensions, there is a 'dado' running the length of the extension that your straight edge may have fallen into or measured over giving you a false 'reading'.

 

[RizuDaab]

I also have the ug extensions bolted to my station without the legs fitted, Problem is the plates that are level are not the same height as the saw base hense one end now sits higher.

 

[lambeater]

This problem seems to come up regularly so there has to be a problem with SOME saws from factory. My pivoting table sits higher than the tables on the side. I wish someone from festool would chime in and come up with a simple adjustment or any easy answer. I would rather not have to remove my saw from its permanent location, box it up and ship it back to festool Canada and have no saw for 3 weeks if the fix is a different size spacer or the maybe the centre pivot bolt needs adjusting, get the picture.
Also I have the UG extensions mounted on my bench without legs but with the mounting plates. The plates are not the correct height to keep the extensions level with the saw height. Again these were not cheap. Are they all like this or is there a varience in height from factory? anyone from festool got any answers?

thx
Lambeater