Kapex - Which Extractor??

[blackemmons]

I currently have a shop vac and a mini cyclone connected to my kapex.  I am looking to improve that situation(if possible).

So the question is, which extractor works the best with the Kapex?  Do I buy a CT## or some other brand and in what size?  Any special connection tips?

Thanks,
JimE

 

[Coen]

What specifically you want to improve?

 

[TOOLTOWN]

Just FYI, the CT's all have approximately the same suction.  The only difference is capacity and the larger (26, 36, 48) can also use a boom arm and workstation on top.

This really becomes a question of where will the vacuum will live, and how often it will be used.

Ken

 

[mastercabman]

I use a Fein turbo I and love it!

 

[blackemmons]

Coen - I want to improve on the amount of dust/chips collected if I can.  Right now I seem to get quit a mess to the rear of the Kapex and more stuff in the air than I would like.  I can not feel much air flow by the boot and nothing is plugged.  I have removed the blade and everything looks fine.  I think the zero clearance fence doesn't help with the collection either.

Tooltown - Can a mini cyclone be used on any of them?  The extractor will live hopefully under the Kapex but could live alongside the Kapex in the 13.5" behind the miter station fence if it would fit.

Thanks.

 

[blackemmons]

I use a Fein turbo I and love it!

  What are the differences between the Festool CT's and the Fein?  Are they an improvement over the CT's?  Thanks.

 

[jacko9]

I think more important than the size of the Dust Extractor is the size of the hose you use with it.  I had the 27mm hose from my original purchase of the CT22 with my Domino Joiner but with the Kapex and my Leigh VRS jig I find that the 36mm hose is much more effective.

Jack

 

[TOOLTOWN]

Tooltown - Can a mini cyclone be used on any of them?  The extractor will live hopefully under the Kapex but could live alongside the Kapex in the 13.5" behind the miter station fence if it would fit.

Thanks.

According to Festool's warranty policy, the use of any third party accessory may void your warranty.  There have been issues with cyclones, like the Dust Deputy, causing problems with the CT's circuitry (possibly due to improper grounding). 

Other members on here can give you their experiences, unfortunately I cannot comment further.

As another member stated, a larger hose will greatly improve dust extraction efficiency.  We sell short 36mm hoses optimized for use with the Kapex.

Ken

 

[blackemmons]

Thanks Ken.  Important info.

Is the 36mm, inside or outside diameter?  How "short" is short?

JimE

 

[TOOLTOWN]

36mm represents the inside diameter.  Our hoses are 1.75 meters (5.75 feet).  We have determined this is the optimal length for a Kapex hose, long enough to go from the vac to the tool, but not so long to have excessive friction losses within the hose itself.

Ken

 

[Holmz]

Tooltown - Can a mini cyclone be used on any of them?  The extractor will live hopefully under the Kapex but could live alongside the Kapex in the 13.5" behind the miter station fence if it would fit.

Thanks.

According to Festool's warranty policy, the use of any third party accessory may void your warranty.  There have been issues with cyclones, like the Dust Deputy, causing problems with the CT's circuitry (possibly due to improper grounding). 

Other members on here can give you their experiences, unfortunately I cannot comment further.

As another member stated, a larger hose will greatly improve dust extraction efficiency.  We sell short 36mm hoses optimized for use with the Kapex.

Ken

So then get the Fein as there is no issue with the Dust Deputy?

Measuring the airflow would be one way to select the vacuum's effectiveness to suck up chips...
Then one can compare them.
It is also way to quantify how much a larger diameter and shorter hose works on each particular vacuum.

The perfect compliment to that would be a table of dust collection efficiency from the saws perspective in terms on CFM or cubic meters/min on the X-axis and %-caught on the Y-axis.
Then if 100% is achieved at 100 cfm, then 200 cfm cannot be better... Or if 100 cf gives 70 % and 200 cfm gives 99% it aids in spec'ing the required vacuum.

That is pretty much analogous having a spend up on too large a vacuum on a sander than requires a low flow/pressure.

 

[mastercabman]

I use a Fein turbo I and love it!

  What are the differences between the Festool CT's and the Fein?  Are they an improvement over the CT's?  Thanks.

I feel that the Turbo has a little more suction
A little quieter
Cheaper
A little less foot print,rolls better
But no suction variable like the CT but it does comes with a hose that has a little valve so that you can regulate airflow amount
The only thing with the Fein that is a little weird is that it has a 15 seconds run after using tool that is plugged in to the vac      A little too long IMO

 

[Holmz]

There are many Goldilocks opinions on how long.

 

[rvieceli]

I believe that I'll be contrary  [big grin]

If you have a solution that works but just not as well as you expect, you could also be disappointed even after spending a bunch of your cash. Use the search function underneath the banner and search for Kapex dust. You'll note that there are several threads that indicate that while the Kapex does a wonderful job compared to other saws, there is still some debris left over.

There have been some mods to the boot collector posted that folks say improves DC

You might also want to take a look at your efforts as well. I don't have a Kapex but a lot posts on the FOG seem to indicate that the dust collection improves significantly with a larger diameter hose and as short of a length of that hose you can get away with. You might want to take a look at your set up and see if you can add a bigger hose and a short length of it at that.

It doesn't hurt as much to spend other peoples money, but I have been tending lately to view purchases in terms of how much the amount would go towards a Domino and accessories.  [wink]

Ron

 

[GarryMartin]

It's also greatly affected by technique, so make sure you are pulling the saw head towards you, then down, then push into the cut.

You'll never get everything, but there is a world of difference when using the 36mm hose, and a little more when keeping the length of the hose relatively short. Add technique, and you should be good to go. Still not 100%, but you're never going to get that.

Adding a zero clearance fence will also affect the amount of dust that is gathered as it reduces the path to the extraction via the "hood" so you may want to play around with that too.

I don't have a zero clearance fence added to my Kapex yet, but when I do, I'd planned on drilling some holes in the fence - that way you still get the support for the cut, but it might increase extraction slightly. I've not seen that done yet though, so until I try, I'm not sure how much difference it will actually make though...

 

[gsdvorak]

I saw significant improvement with dust collection when going to a 36mm hose.  Originally, I was using at CT22 but picked up a CT Mini that is now dedicated to the Kapex.  No difference in dust collection between the two vacs- as stated earlier, the CTs have the same suction, some just have larger capacity.  Even with the improvement, there is still a little dust left behind.

I did, however, see a significant drop in dust collection when adding zero-clearance insert and fences (I'm guessing the fences made the most difference).  I never thought of Garry's idea of drilling holes- I think I will give that a try to see if there is any improvement.

Regards,
Gerald

 

[rst]

I use three Feins, the older model which have the variable suction and auto start, two with Oneida steel Dust Deputys connected and Bosch anti static hoses.  I also have a Midi with the Oneida festool Dust Seputy and just bought a Ct 26 that I will use as a dedicated sanding only vac.  The steel Oneidas are for use routing and cutting at my MFT and at self-made 65" X 109" MFT (this unit has a dropin/replacable kerf board for crosscutting up to 60" sheets), they are  in separate rooms. 

 

[Holmz]

I use three Feins, the older model which have the variable suction and auto start, two with Oneida steel Dust Deputys connected and Bosch anti static hoses.  I also have a Midi with the Oneida festool Dust Seputy and just bought a Ct 26 that I will use as a dedicated sanding only vac.  The steel Oneidas are for use routing and cutting at my MFT and at self-made 65" X 109" MFT (this unit has a dropin/replacable kerf board for crosscutting up to 60" sheets), they are  in separate rooms.

and???

How does the suction compare?
Are they used with specific tools because of more of ess suction, or are they all the same?

 

[blackemmons]

Thanks to all for the info and advice.

Does anyone have any experience with the Dust Deputy and the Festool extractors?  If it works with the Fein extractors, why wouldn't it work with the Festool models?  It seems like the extractor would fill pretty quickly without it.

 

[GarryMartin]

Does anyone have any experience with the Dust Deputy and the Festool extractors?  If it works with the Fein extractors, why wouldn't it work with the Festool models?  It seems like the extractor would fill pretty quickly without it.

It's not that it doesn't work. It does and lots of people use them.

There were some problems with earlier Dust Deputy cyclones in maintaining a path for static discharge, and this had the potential to damage the electronics in the Festool extractor. I understand that Oneida have changed the design of the cyclone (at least in the one sold specifically for Festool extractors) and that they provide a kit for retro-fitting to older cyclones to resolve the issue by maintaining the path.

Festool don't recommend using non-Festool or non-approved accessories with their extractors, but I don't think that is any different to other manufacturers to be honest; it seems like a legal protection mechanism more than anything.

I just checked the Fein manuals and they have a similar disclaimer.

[attachimg=1]

There are plenty of posts on the FOG about modifications to various cyclones (Dust Deputy included) to maintain the static path is this is a particular concern to you.