KS60 - We pay more to cover a design error.

[pingvinlakrits]

Ok, I actually own the saw now so at least I can _weigh in_ with some user input. Pun intended.

Please pardon my french.....  I have always been one to hold festool to the fire, but some of the critics of the ks 60 are retarded. Its a lightweight saw, dual bevel, 12" crosscut, shadow line saw. I would much rather have 60 degree miters in both directions than that fence moving thing on the metabo. Lets see if its a good tool once people have used it.

This statement is partially not true. It is _not_ a lightweight saw. It is actually quite heavy! The closest competitor is the Metabo KGS 72 Xact without the SYM feature - it is lighter, a whole lot cheaper, has better cut capacity and is more or less the same construction as the Kapex KS60 with dual bevel and no back protrusion when cutting. Then there are same class saws that are considerably lighter than the Metabo. The first negative I experienced with the KS60 is that it is heavier than expected.

60 degree miters is good to have, but how often would you actually use it? I think I have never needed to go past 50 and my old, much lighter Makita does 57, has no dual bevel but better cut capacity at around 5kg/11lbs less. The Makita I carry in one hand easily.  Some of my toolboxes are even heavier than the KS60 and I lug them around all the time but I can hold them closer to the body and carry one on each side. The KS60 makes for a very lopsided walk unless you use both hands. 

I did own the KS120 but it was too big for me as I worked mostly on site and very seldom needed that cut capacity so for the most part I took the Makita and it did well. The KS60 for me will hopefully be the right size cut capacity and the accuracy I am hoping to get out of it. Weight does bother me a little though. 

EDIT: I agree with Timtools that the KS120 was very innovative when it came out. The KS60 does not do much when it comes to upholding that legacy. Shadow line cut has already been done so I don't see the innovation here, really. Metabo would in that case be _more_ innovative with incorporating the SYM feature in a sliding saw. You can also use the SYM feature to go waaaaaaay past 60 degrees.

Conclusion is that I do think the KS60 is overpriced. It may still be a great little cousin to the KS120 although it feels more of a little cousin to the KS88.

Enough ranting, I am actually off to _using_ the KS60 now.  [big grin]

 

[oldie]

Look like could be really useful size saw for a lot people. 
Always liked idea of 'shadow line' against lasers. 

With some hesitation - am wondering when will start to get some input from Mrs. Parfitt.  [unsure]
Might have some helpful things to say about Mr. Parfitts's borrowed, for review, tools - just curious. 

Richard (UK)

 

[ach_78]

Just like german car makers are especially greedy on options, Festool is especially greedy on accessories.
Most of them are ridiculously priced. Yes, ridiculously. Now these KS60 feet are no exception.

Not better or worse that most of the accessories product line...

 

[Jimdude]

For those who haven't seen a decent side view of the KS 60.
[attachimg=1]

Disclaimer: the KS60 is the saw I'm most likely (*) going to buy when my current slider goes "poof". The form factor is just about perfect for my needs, I know I'll love the accuracy, and the cost… well, it costs more but not that much more than the alternative (which is of course the Metabo) - this spoken from a hobbyist perspective who'll "devalue" this purchase over 20 years or so. So, for less than 20 bucks per year, spread over 20 years, I get to look at a Festool in my basement (well, apart from looking at it, I'd use it too!). I'm sure that makes me a tool-snob, which is fine by me. I'm supposed to enjoy myself when I'm woodworking, and part of ~my~ enjoyment comes from using good tools. This will be different for other people, and I'm happy for them (slightly envious too, since their hobby will be cheaper than mine!).

So, that said: the example mitres on that KS60-stand are an insult to Festool. The bottom left one does not even appear to be a straight cut. The mitre is open on both ends.

(*) It's 100% certainty at the moment, but knowing my "luck", my current saw is going to last another 20 years, by which time there might be better alternatives than the KS60.

 

[bertv]

Having just read thru this thread (the title put me off for a while), a couple of things come to mind:

Even if your products conform to a 'system' there are times when one has to leave that behind & move forward. Eg I don't remember there being this much furore when the MFT/3 launched. That was quite a step forward from the earlier models: different size, different profile, and even A FEW CENTIMETERS higher. Why weren't all users of the older models clamoring for height adapters, etc.? Well, at least the holes were the same!  [tongue]

Innovation. There are only so much ways to combine a motor, a blade and other stuff. After the real invention has happened, the rest is modification (eg the iPhone). If you want 'innovation' first and foremost, you will have to wait for the first consumer grade waterjet wood cutter.  [wink]

 

[Stephen B]

[attachimg=1]

[size=18pt]I know, I know, I know!!!  [eek]
[size=12pt]See Reply #1

Well I put the little feet on, got out a Sys 1 and you know what? The first cut was 90 degrees vertically and horizontally! Straight out of the box. Dust collection too,  was great [36mm hose]. [smile]

I noted that it has the TS 'growler' noise, which is good to know technically.

Next week will be the real test as I cut and fit Merbu decking.

[size=8pt][member=13058]Kev[/member] [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] [member=56306]David Stanton[/member]. [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]

 

[Stephen B]

Reaction to my first day of real use.

Extending a deck, and today cutting and installing Merbu. The saw is certainly a joy to use; precisely cutting the timber with ease. With 36mm hose and Vac the dust extraction is excellent. Only ctricism so far [except for those feet] is the blade light is useless when working outside. Oh, and the angle finder does not appear to have a home within the saw as is the case with the KS120. Can someone please enlighten me on this if I am wrong here. [member=56306]David Stanton[/member]

Speaking of the angle finder, unlike the 120 whose angle finder relies on the lasers, or so I have read; the KS60 hase.markings for this. Improvement here over the KS120 when working in bright light conditions outside.

 

[Harry1561]

[member=19746]Untidy Shop[/member] I think you will find a home for the angle finder on the base at the back of the saw. Good to see a positive comments on a kapex   

 

[Stephen B]

Thanks [member=62051]Harry1561[/member]  will investigate that further in the morning [AEST].

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Everyone

I think it was in this thread that the brake or no brake topic came up. I cannot remember the context and I am unable to read every post to find out. However....

I am in the middle of filming the KS60 videos and have done a side by side test of the KS120 and KS60 starting and stopping. I found, and it will be shown twice on my video, that they start and reach full speed in the same time and stop in the same time.

Expect the first of the videos in about 10 days.

Peter

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]Agree [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]

Now that I own one, I can report that the blade stops very quickly. I am very happy with this purchase so far.  [smile] Dust collection with 36mm hose is excellent, and the standard blade is accurately cutting Merbu decking.

However myoriginal reason for this thread still remains, even though I have fitted the feet.  [mad]

Peter, I am looking  fwd to your video.

 

[Flatsawn]

Peter: In your video explain shadow lighting? also the cost in $

Mark

 

[Stone Message]

Peter: In your video explain shadow lighting? also the cost in $

Mark

The shadow lighting is there but I have not analysed the pricing as it varies and people can look at the prices on the internet.

I will say that a lot of people will find the KS60 does everything they need to do and save them buying a KS120.

Having put both machines side by side (literally in one of my videos) I would not swap my KS120 even in a new for old deal.

Peter