Kydex experiences?

[aCircle]

I've been thinking more and more about giving Kydex a go. Recently had a beautiful pair of Ernest Wright shears show up in my shop and been thinking that Kydex is a great option for a way to protect them without trapping moisture like leather would.

Curious to hear everyone's experience. Searching through the history I'm surprised to find there's only been a bit of discussion on the material. It looks pretty easy to use... am I missing something?

For anybody curious, two examples of the material are here and here.

 

[ChuckM]

Looks like a good potential material to use to make adapters for connecting the dust extractor or shop vac hose to power tools/machines.

 

[rmwarren]

Kydex is as easy and bulletproof as advertised. Case in point (pun...) is my reading glass case that I couldn't find ready-made anywhere, small enough to slip into any pocket and snug fit. I haven't trashed a pair of glasses since making it.

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I carved a simple block form, used this to trace a pattern, cut the material on a bandsaw and used a heat gun to mold it. The form took longer than anything else to make.

I'm planning a front pocket EDC gizmo for a little LED light, space pen, cash/cards and a small knife next. Probably combine with some wet formed leather but haven't totally planned it out.

Give it a go, Amazon sells 9 by 12 sheets of 0.80 material cheap.

RMW

 

[Packard]

I worked with a friend making a sheath for a hunting knife.  We used a folded over design and the hardest part was getting the edges to align.  But we finally got a good result (using an old toaster oven, no less). 

Unlike leather, it does not “break-in”.  The fit has to be spot on from the beginning. 

For the hunting knife, we used the actual knife for a form.  And heavy leather gloves to press the Kydex into shape.  Other products might not enjoy the heat.  In those cases you would do well to make a form. 

I just looked this up:  The ideal temperature for forming Kydex is 365 F to 400 F.  That is hot enough to melt many injection molded parts.  Thermoset parts would be immune to that issue.

For example the black handles on Buck knives are made from phenolic (thermoset plastic).  Thermoset plastic changes molecular properties once molded and cannot be melted again.  Older wall outlets and light switches had brown plastic pieces made from thermoset plastic. 

But know your form’s material and that it can handle the heat. 

I would note that we had an absurdly easy time making the sheath.  It probably would have gotten even easier if we did a lot of it. 

Let us know how you make out.

I would think that with so many members using CNC machining, that making forms would be fairly easy.  I’m surprised that more of the Systainers did not incorporate Kydex.  I had suggested in the past.  I think it would stand up better than the foam cubes.

 

[Sparktrician]

I have a couple of holsters made from Kydex.  Both were well made by their respective manufacturers, yet both needed to be slightly "tuned" for a better fit to my pieces.  I used a RotoZip on one case, and a heat gun in another to get them right for my purposes. 

 

[aCircle]

This is super helpful. Thanks!

I think I'll give it a go. Any tips for profiling the edges, whether with sanding or router bits?

And what about joining the material once it's folded over? Did you use any any additional bonding agent Richard?

Or does anybody have experience with rivets or grommets?

 

[Sparktrician]

Any tips for profiling the edges, whether with sanding or router bits?

As for smoothing the edges, I file and/or sand GENTLY first, then very carefully kiss the sanded edge with a flame from a butane lighter to get it really smooth without deforming the material. 

 

[rmwarren]

And what about joining the material once it's folded over? Did you use any any additional bonding agent Richard?

Nope, just used painters' tape to hold it in that closed position until it cooled down. The stuff really is user friendly once you get the hang of it. Have fun.

RMW

 

[aCircle]

Alright I’m on it. Will report back. Thanks all!

 

[Mortiser]

Kydex works easily. I heat it in the kitchen oven (don't heat it too long). Then I use a simple press with two pieces of press foam (https://usaknifemaker.com/mold-foam-for-kydex-concealex-neoprene-1-thick.html), two pieces of plywood and clamps. I suggest you heat your foam with a heat gun before taking the Kydex out of the oven. This keeps the Kydex from setting too fast on cool foam before you get it clamped and formed. Also put a layer or two of painters tape or duct tape on the tool you are making the case for. This will allow a little spare room to keep the tool from fitting too tight. Typically folded sheaths are riveted together where the two edges join and then shaped to final size.
I have made several sheaths for my chisels that I carry in my tool box. If you don't want a folded edge, form two generous pieces in the press over and under the tool, aligning carefully and then mold the Kydex. Then you can glue the edges of the two pieces with CA glue. After the glue sets you can cut the final shape with a scroll saw and then sand the edges smooth with sandpaper or a fine file.
Lots of uses and easy to work with. Have fun.

 

[Packard]

This is super helpful. Thanks!

I think I'll give it a go. Any tips for profiling the edges, whether with sanding or router bits?

And what about joining the material once it's folded over? Did you use any any additional bonding agent Richard?

Or does anybody have experience with rivets or grommets?

I have not tried this with Kydex, but it works fine on acrylic.  It’s called “flame polishing”.

What you do is play a butane torch quickly ove the edges of the plastic.  Since the corners of th cut edges have less mass than the body of the plastic, those corners melt first yielding perfectly smooth edges.  Test first on a sample.  I will look for a video.

Addendum:  I could not find anything specific to Kydex.  This one is showing acrylic. You will have to test first.  But as you can see, it is very fast, and longer heating will increase the radii of the edges.

The aluminum extrusion is functioning as a heat sink, preventing the edges from getting larger radii.

I am surprised that he left on the protective paper.  The heat will make it hard to remove.

 

[aCircle]

Even more help! Thanks all!

This video looks like a good resource with more hosted on the HolsterSmith page:
=1229s

 

[Packard]

I am adding this only because I find it interesting.

Kydex was originally marketed to the aircraft industry.  All the wall panels and seat backs on commercial airlines’ planes are made from Kydex.  It had all the attributes that they required.  Light weight, low tooling costs, resistance to fracturing, easily cleaned and durable. 

In theory, you could make the forms from wood.  But I think they “slump-form” those large panels for the aircraft in the oven.

Slump-forming or “slumping” is a technique borrowed from the glass fabrication industry.  It involves heating the glass to soften it, and allowing gravity to work to envelope the form.  Obviously glass slumping requires higher heat. 

 

[aCircle]

Absolutely. I saw you mentioned that before, [member=74278]Packard[/member], and it's made me curious why it is the material doesn't see more use outside of "tactical" uses. It seems like a universally helpful material for all sorts of projects and goods!

 

[rmwarren]

One handy trait is it doesn't spring back after forming. It's will flex enough to do things like spring retention for knife sheaths but it'll retain whatever shape it's in when it cools.

I've got an old thrift store heat plate that I'm going to use next time I play with it. I've started wearing bifocal safety glasses when out bushwacking in the pine barrens, I made a simple pattern for a glass case to clip on my pack strap or other molle attachments.

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RMW

 

[Packard]

I’m just thinking aloud here.  Does it make sense to cut the blank to the finished size before forming, or is it logical to make the final trim after forming?

I can see arguments favoring both approaches. 

It is easier to fabricate the flat sheet rather than the formed piece.

It might be easier to trim the formed piece that to create the developed blank, especially if it is a one-off project.

If it is a production item, the coming up with a developed blank makes sense to me.

On a separate matter, I have a heat press that was used for heat transfer of color designs onto tee-shirts.  It has a thermostat that goes above 400 F.  I am wondering if that would be easier to use than an oven. In one sense it is definitely easier—it is located in my workshop.  But how to maneuver it after heating? Maybe a pizza paddle?

 

[aCircle]

This video looks like a good resource with more hosted on the HolsterSmith page:
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Packard and Richard, check out this video above. It shows one approach to both of your questions — using a t-shirt press to heat up the material and then cutting off (and sanding/polishing) the edges of the scrap material after it’s formed.

 

[Packard]

I’ve owned many handgun holsters from several different manufacturers over the years.  The most thoughtfully designed, and the best (in my opinion) are the Simply Rugged holsters. 

Unlike the other premium holster manufacturers who hand form the fully assembled leather holster while it is still wet, to precisely show the outline of the underlying gun, Simply rugged has a more general shape telegraphed through the leather.  I suspect that instead of hand working the leather, they use a vacuum bag to form it while still wet.

By comparison, the Simply Rugged holsters are functional right out of the box.  The DeSantis (and most others) are generally so tightly ensconced that it is impossible to draw the gun from the holster without some work by the buyer. 

Also, the retention aspect of the Simply Rugged holsters remain the same for many years.  While the highly tooled versions from other manufacturers gradually loosen and ultimately get too loose.

Kydex will not break-in.  The fit has to be perfect from the outset.  If you impress the Kydex too tightly to the shape of the knife, I suspect that the knife will be nearly impossible to extract.  The major manufacturers include screws that will offer some adjustment. 

I think I would go for the Simply Rugged approach and not make the sheath perfectly conform to the knife.  The sheath, ideally will allow easy access without the knife falling out on its own. 

However, my experience is entirely at the user end of the equation, with only that one attempt by my friend to make a sheath (with me in assistance). 

So take my suggestions with that lack of maker-experience in mind.

Compare:

Simply Rugged

DeSantis Leather

 

[Sparktrician]

The one objection I have to Kydex in a holster is that it's noisy.  When I use a TT Gunleather holster, it's relatively quiet, holds the piece snugly, and releases it quietly when it's needed.  Kydex is just not even close to quiet when a piece is inserted or drawn. 

 

[Packard]

My main objection to Kydex is that it does not feel like quality. It feels like, “Oops!  A sheath!  We forgot the sheath.  Where did we put that Kydex?”

It’s that whole “perceived quality” issue for me.  But…I like it better than the little foam cubes for case organizers.  A couple of tiny foam adhesive foam pads to keep item from rattling, and it think it is a very good option for that purpose.

For holsters, it is a medium production run item.  Glock sells molded holsters for their guns and those are all injection molded to much tighter specs and cost far less to manufacture.