Lamello

[Birdhunter]

I loaned my Domino 500 to a young friend building furniture for his baby to be. I pulled out my very old DeWalt biscuit cutter to do a small project. Worked great.

I saw a post about Lamello biscuit cutters and was intrigued. It appears to be a very well made machine and very expensive.

I was hoping to see one in person, but can't find a vendor in my area, Atlanta.

Are the machines good enough to justify the cost?

 

[GhostFist]

In the case of the lamello zeta. I'd say it is. In fact I'll go on to say that I feel it is the most versatile joining machine for cabinetry, the dd40 second and the domino 500 last

 

[antss]

They are a quality tool and invented the category if memory serves correctly. No dealers in the Southeast to my knowledge either.

If you're a collector , I'm sure you can justify the price.  If you're a hobbyist and not trust funded, then your dewalt does exactly the same job and is regarded by many as one of the best around.  If you're doing a boatload of biscuits, the lamello glue bottles are pretty good and worth the price.

If you're really set on one , you might give the fellas over at Highland Hardware a call and see if they can point you to a local owner.  They carried them ten or twenty years ago.  My recollection is that the Dewalt rack/pinion fence was better than the Lamello offering 20 years ago when I was shopping and lamello's metal was painted a puke yellow green color that turned me off with the burgandy body.

Might ask Colonial Saw for a referral too.  They have been the N.A. Distributor since the wheel was invented.

Ghost - do build and sell a lot of cabinets for people that need or want knock down capability WITH concealed fasteners ?  I'm surprised there's a market large enough and willing to pay the premimum you'd need to charge to justify the expense of a zeta. There are way more efficient ways of building knock down cabinets.

 

[Birdhunter]

I'm pretty happy with my DeWalt, especially considering how few times I use biscuits now that I've got 2 Dominos.

 

[Holmz]

...
Are the machines good enough to justify the cost?

For sheet goods the zeta is ideal. For one, you cannot undo a domino, so you cannot re-flat pack domino work once it is glued up.

"Is it worth it" depends on how we justify the cost...
In a professional setting I think it should be quick to use(??)

In the hobby setting, I can put stuff together that looks good in short order, and take it apart if it needs something changed, or to move it.

For me I rate the Zeta as my #1 tool.

 

[The.Handyman]

FYI, Home Depot online sells the Lamello biscuit joiners. Order one shipped free to your home to check out. Return at any store within 90 days if you don't like it or want it.

 

[RussellS]

I have the DeWalt biscuit joiner.  Its a fine biscuit joiner.  But it cannot do what the Domino is capable of.  So it is well down in functionality compared to a Domino.  I looked up this new Zeta thing people are talking about.  Looks interesting.  Personally I do not build things that come apart or fall apart.  When I build furniture, I want it to stay together forever.  But I guess the obsession with Ikea style is spreading.

 

[andyman]

...
Are the machines good enough to justify the cost?

For sheet goods the zeta is ideal. For one, you cannot undo a domino, so you cannot re-flat pack domino work once it is glued up.

"Is it worth it" depends on how we justify the cost...
In a professional setting I think it should be quick to use(??)

In the hobby setting, I can put stuff together that looks good in short order, and take it apart if it needs something changed, or to move it.

For me I rate the Zeta as my #1 tool.

you can get a domino knock down fitting in the Uk I had a sample sent to me a couple of months ago

 

[Holmz]

I have the DeWalt biscuit joiner.  Its a fine biscuit joiner.  But it cannot do what the Domino is capable of.  So it is well down in functionality compared to a Domino.  I looked up this new Zeta thing people are talking about.  Looks interesting.  Personally I do not build things that come apart or fall apart.  When I build furniture, I want it to stay together forever.  But I guess the obsession with Ikea style is spreading.

I completely understand.

For regular work that does not need to travel far or often, then a domino or a dowel makes a lot of sense. Or if it is fine furniture.

However I now have people a continent away. One is in grad school, and likey to be relocating on post-doc work, so the IKEA on steroids makes sense. For closet type efforts it also can make sense, but mostly so that I can make a mistake and take it apart to fix it... [embarassed]

 

[GhostFist]

I mainly use the delta's tenso connectors which are much cheaper than the knock down claimed connectors.  Tenso allows you to join without clamps or at least a lot less of them. The nature of the zeta's  cutting action creates a mechanically locking joint, which the domino cannot do. You can also replace the blade on a zeta with a standard biscuit cutting blade and you have the full range of connecting options lamello and others offer. Sorry, but the domino is a one trick pony.

 

[Birdhunter]

So, the way I read the response, the Lamello Zita offers an unique feature that my DeWalt does not. The other Lamello models do what my DeWalt does (perhaps better?).

I can't remember building anything that needed to be taken apart and reassembled. If I do, I will remember the Lamello.

 

[GhostFist]

lamello make rock solid machines, they invented biscuit joining after all. As with all things expensive, it's value comes in how much you use it. As i said, i mainly use the zeta with the tenso clamping connectors. These offer a permanent joint without the use of clamps. You essentially just click together your glued components and can continue to work on the piece as the glue sets. where the zeta system falls short is in connecting smaller pieces due to the width of the zeta connectors. The domino is best for those jobs.
As to the clamex knock down connectors, i have a small stash that i mainly use for prototyping/mock up but they are an excellent and strong knock down connector if the price is justified for the job. In the case of mock ups, the connectors are reusable.

I don't sell machines nor do I care what colour they are. I also don't believe you need the most expensive tool possible to do the best job. In my case I own a zeta, a domino 500 and a mafell dd40. I reach for the zeta first, dd40 second, and the domino rarely

 

[junk731]

Some Lamello products make Festool look cheap. I personally got rid of a biscuit joiner 8 years ago and haven't found a need, the domino covers everything I need to do in custom cabinets and furniture. Back then they didn't have the Zeta fittings. I've looked at the system again and still don't see it to be useful for me. Ghostfist says he places the Domino at the bottom of his list, I don't know about now but he was a movie set builder so I can see where a Zeta or biscuit joint could be useful for what he does. I know a couple of set guys. Holmes likes to build for transport around the world so I can see where a good knock apart joint could be helpful. If you got a spare $3000.00 kicking around for the machine and fittings along with the work that needs it, seems like a good choice.

John

 

[Holmz]

They are 1000-1050 euros without VAT in 230v from Germany.

It is only worth it if one is doing sheet goods, otherwise it is a waste of funds at any price.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I mainly use the delta's tenso connectors which are much cheaper than the knock down claimed connectors.  Tenso allows you to join without clamps or at least a lot less of them. The nature of the zeta's  cutting action creates a mechanically locking joint, which the domino cannot do. You can also replace the blade on a zeta with a standard biscuit cutting blade and you have the full range of connecting options lamello and others offer. Sorry, but the domino is a one trick pony.

What is delta?

I kept my Porter Cable biscuit joiner and I'm glad I did. There are a lot of fittings besides plain old beech biscuits that can be used with ordinary slots. IMO the ordinary Lamello  biscuit joiner isn't worth the extra cost compared to the name brand knock-offs.

But the Zeta is unique and nothing short of a CNC milling machine can make comparable slots which are equivalent to hidden reversible dovetail joints.

 

[stvrowe]

When I purchased the Lamello plate joiner, it was $299 while the PC 557 was around $229.  For $70, it was worth the upcharge IMO.  Current price for the Lamello C3 (my model is the C2 predecessor) is $599 and the PC is still about $229.  As much as I like the Lamello plate joiner, I don't think it is worth $370 more.

I agree with Ghost that for sheetgoods and cabinets, the order of use is Lamello, DD40, Domino.  For furniture, reverse the order.  I seldom use the Domino in cabinets anymore while in furniture, I seldom use the Lamello.  It depends on what you make.  The Zeta P is my go to tool for cabinets.  The Zeta P fasteners are a bit on the pricey side but it is worth it for many reasons (limited shop space and ease of storage/transport are most important to me).  As far as fastener price, lets face it, on this forum you don't have to look very hard to find people complaining about the cost of Dominos.

I do not believe there is such a thing as a "one size fits all" joinery tool.  Sometimes, even the 4mm Domino is too large which is why I kept the Leigh FMT jig.  At other times, I resort to a router for joinery or even (gasp) the chisel.

As a woodworker, I feel blessed to be living in an age where there is so much innovation in joinery methods and techniques.  I visited the OVVO booth at the IWF and checked out that system.  I don't think this system makes knockdown joints as rapid or easy as the Zeta P but; it is less than half the price with less expensive fasteners to boot.  It seems to be plenty strong.

Steve

 

[95hilux]

I have a lamello Zeta p-2 and I do love it and the various connecting systems are great but for ease of use you can't go past the domino it may be a one trick pony but it does that trick very well. As for the Mafell dd 40 I nearly bought one when I was living in the uk and it is a very impressive machine  but at the end of the day just buy a dowel jig it does the same job.

 

[GhostFist]

I have to say a simple dowel jig does not do the same job as a dd40. The dd40 out of all three machines is probably the easiest and most accurate to align. It also can rapidly punch out shelf pins in conjunction with it's guide track. It is a whole other animal than what is up for discussion here.

As with any tool recommendation, the choice is ultimately yours, there is no wrong answer

 

[junk731]

They are 1000-1050 euros without VAT in 230v from Germany.

It is only worth it if one is doing sheet goods, otherwise it is a waste of funds at any price.

In NA 120V I wish, For the US market Amazon.com is around $2300 with out tax or accessories, I assume they are cheaper sources, Canada I see a dealer for around $2000.00 +HST for the same which is surprising considering the dollar difference. Box of 80 Clamex is $190.00 and the box of 80 Denso is $85.00, I couldn't find a price for the biscuit blade. The interesting thing is who finds it useful, would like to hear from a few more professionals to get their opinions.

John

John

 

[Kev]

I have a lamello Zeta p-2 and I do love it and the various connecting systems are great but for ease of use you can't go past the domino it may be a one trick pony but it does that trick very well. As for the Mafell dd 40 I nearly bought one when I was living in the uk and it is a very impressive machine  but at the end of the day just buy a dowel jig it does the same job.

I think the DD40 would come into its own when you use its track system. I've been tempted to get one, even though I have both Dominos and a Zeta P2. The annoying thing about the DD40 is there are 2 models - exactly the same footprint, but with different power and RPM ... which is fine if you know your scope of activity before you buy. To me the DD40 and its track would make for the easiest LR32 build outside of a CNC.