Largest reception desk I have done in 5 years (new pic, overhead view)

[Crazyraceguy]

It not even close to the size of the largest ever, but since we moved to the current facility, largest overall. There have been a couple that were similar in length, but not as wide or tall.
It is basically dictated by several columns in the area that it will occupy. It is roughly symmetrical, but not really, there are significant differences from side to side. The is a large L section that is not in place, in the photos. It connects via that piece of french cleat, turning the center into a square U, with quarter-round wings on each side. They are not really equal either, since the finishing materials are different.
This one has been a "hot rush" starting it on Tuesday, but I was off (medical) on Wednesday, and no one touched it. So, between the 2 of us (my apprentice) we got it pretty far. We spent 5 more hours (each) on Saturday, me laminating some of the exterior and him on the solid surface. Somehow, I am missing 2 of the pics I took on Saturday? It has to ship in the early AM on Wednesday, so done Tuesday afternoon.
Much more to come, since there is a lot more Corian, with waterfall edges.

 

[Cheese]

That thing looks larger than a single car garage.  [eek]

A lot of different things going on with that one...corner radiuses, curves, bump-outs, different elevations. It'll be interesting to see the finished product.  [smile]

 

[rvieceli]

I might be mistaken but this does not look like retirement to me.  [eek] [tongue]

Great work as usual.

Ron

 

[PaulMarcel]

Nice work! Each of those parts would completely fill my shop. Even planning where parts get assembled must be a chore since moving any of it takes a lot of people.

You've likely answered this a hundred times, but when you do curved fronts like that, are you laminating a few layers of 1/8" ply or using bending ply? Or CNCing kerfs?

I might be mistaken but this does not look like retirement to me.  [eek] [tongue]

"concept of retirement"  [wink]

 

[oberlin1]

Sure as shooting’ ain’t his first rodeo!  Lovely work!!!

 

[smorgasbord]

Yeah, some people lust after upgrading their tools to be more or better.

I lust for more shop space. It'd be #1 on my list for a new shop if I moved or had to start over.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

First, thank you to you all.
I can add some more details too. Yes [member=44099]Cheese[/member] it is literally bigger than my garage space. It is just under 22 feet long, 12 feet wide and nearly 4 feet high. It has all kinds of things going on. There will be 3 different colors of laminate, stained tambor in that front recess, and white Corian. With all of that, plus the elevation changes (and a twisting angled radius) it seems like a designer threw everything in the same project?

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] it sure doesn't  [unsure] Not only am I not there yet, they have got me working extra, because somebody over-promised. I have been taking Mondays off for most of the last year, but these last three jobs (both of the bulletproof ones and this) have me doing Mondays and Saturday last week.
The actual last day is going to be this summer. The goal is (and always has been) my birthday, at the latest.

[member=131]Paul[/member] Marcel the skin is kerf cut ply, done with the Beam saw. It's especially nice for this, since I can program it to cut and walk away until it's done. Before this saw, we used to do it with bending ply. The sell it as 3/8" but it's really isn't. The actual measurement is 5/16" (probably 8mm from the place where it is made) That stuff is far more difficult to deal with though. Not only do you have to glue up two layers, it has a tendency to spiral or cone. The nice square sheets of ply will allow the whole thing to remain square, since it won't twist. The other issue is when a radius meets a flat area. The materials are not the same thickness. 16mm of bending board is at least 2mm thinner. Some kind of blending has to happen there. It is bad enough in a solid area, but quite a bit more involved if it is at a field joint.

Sure as shooting’ ain’t his first rodeo!  Lovely work!!!

You got that right. I have been doing this for nearly 21 years  [blink] Still shocks me sometimes.
It wasn't as easy to document back in the early days though. I did have a very rudimentary digital camera, but it was not a daily thing. I had to remember to take it, since I didn't like keeping it in the dusty environment every day. I have a few pics of the early stuff, but that camera was stolen from me. So, there is a bit of a hole, in the middle years, before smart phones.
This one is a bit of a "kitchen sink" approach though. I have seen that before, but it's not really common.

Yeah, some people lust after upgrading their tools to be more or better.

I lust for more shop space. It'd be #1 on my list for a new shop if I moved or had to start over.

That is precisely why I got into Festool, years ago. Domino, RO sanders, routers, and track saws have all improved my work, as well as saving time. This has been greatly beneficial to my process. I honestly do not know how I would have made the partial cone sections of a group of nurse stations that I built a few years ago. Maybe CNC could have done it, but that track saw made it easy.

That is going to be the biggest transition, when I retire the summer. I will be going from a 60k sqft facility, where I have a lot of space to myself and my projects, to less than 300 sqft at home.
Of course, my projects will change dramatically too, so the space will work. Technically, I do have more space, if I remove a wall and open up the rest, but a 40' by 12' shape is a little odd. As of now, it is (24' by 12') I do have the advantage of keeping my air compressor and dust collector in that other space though and that helps a lot.

 

[cpw]

That is going to be the biggest transition, when I retire the summer. I will be going from a 60k sqft facility, where I have a lot of space to myself and my projects, to less than 300 sqft at home.
Of course, my projects will change dramatically too, so the space will work. Technically, I do have more space, if I remove a wall and open up the rest, but a 40' by 12' shape is a little odd. As of now, it is (24' by 12') I do have the advantage of keeping my air compressor and dust collector in that other space though and that helps a lot.

My space is about 44' x 13'.  It might be odd, but it is mostly workable.  When I have a big project going on, I steal 1 of the two garage bays for materials [and then often kick out the other car to break down sheet goods without having to drag them into the basement].  Currently, I'm working down the pile, but in October I had about 200 bf of ash and 13 sheets of ply in there for part of a bedroom set that I'm working on.

I lose some of the space on one end to the oil tank, treadmill, and chest freezer.  I'm lucky enough to also have a 3.5' high crawlspace with a concrete floor that adds another 13x20 of storage for less frequently accessed things.

The big tools all have infeed/outfeed in the long direction and are on wheels.  That roughly translates into the miter saw at one end; in front of my shelving units.  Then the jointer in the middle opposite my MFT, with some mostly dead space behind it.  The bandsaw is tucked just to the side, so the "dead space" is where I stand when using the bandsaw.  For anything actually long on the bandsaw, I would need to pull it out away from the wall.  Then the table saw is the widest tool, taking up nearly 2/3 of the width.  The exterior door is right behind its outfeed which is very occasionally helpful (I can cut 9' or so without having to move the saw or open the door).

 

[mino]

One thing I love about your professional projects is the use of materials. Even on the most luxurious pieces one sees particle board, then plywood then veneer, then wood next to it. As is appropriate for a given location/function in the design.

Looking at these pieces feels as if these were mine. Not that I would know how to make them - it is that good feeling looking at well-engineered stuff that just aligns.

Thanks!

 

[Crazyraceguy]

One thing I love about your professional projects is the use of materials. Even on the most luxurious pieces one sees particle board, then plywood then veneer, then wood next to it. As is appropriate for a given location/function in the design.

Looking at these pieces feels as if these were mine. Not that I would know how to make them - it is that good feeling looking at well-engineered stuff that just aligns.

Thanks!

Thanks [member=61254]mino[/member] that means a lot, coming from you.

Yes, the material choice is mostly driven by the desired result. As an example, I use a specific plywood for the kerf bending. It is a Pine plywood, that is fairly thick, on the outer layers. The typical Asian ply, that we use as general shop ply, has paper thin outer veneers. It does not respond well to the kerfing.
This particular job is all over the place, as far as materials go. It has more colors and materials than most. You will see, with today's pics. 3 colors of laminate, Corian, wood tambor, metal corners
It should be done tomorrow. The Corian pieces are ready to go, it just needs some more laminate on the inside first.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Finished today. It turned into a hot rush, which I really hate. The extra time it took to finish the last one (the second bulletproof one) ate into this. Someone overpromised and it turns into my problem  [blink]
It was actually supposed to be done yesterday, but there is just no way that was going to happen. They pushed the contractor back to "early afternoon" today, but we still weren't ready. At 4:30 this afternoon, we broke it down to ship. It ended up as 7 days, plus 5 hours last Saturday (and an extra 1.5 hours today)
As always, I don't have any pics of it complete, mostly because we were taking off sections as we finished things. I got a few pics at lunchtime, showing some of the Corain, as applied. I should get some installed pics pretty soon though; it is supposed to be completely installed by Friday.

 

[Michael Kellough]

That last Corian pic is super impressive, not even counting the rush.

They’re gonna miss you!
If Mill Tech was publicly traded I’d short the stock before you retire.

 

[Packard]

The problem with doing very difficult jobs very well, is you become a magnet for similar work that others turn down.

Once it was learned that I would use the old-fashioned “lacing” method for mounting my mom’s needle work to the mounting board, I was deluged with similar work from members of the local chapter of the “Embroiders’ Guild”, an association my mother was an member.

The problem with lacing, is that amount of labor involved is “indefinite”.  It could take an hour (not running into problems) or 3 or 4 hours, and there was no way to know until you went to work on it. 

The problem with quoting on really big jobs, you can lose count of the hours invested.  Often at the end, there is no way to determine how much, if any, profit there was. 

At any rate, if you take big jobs, you will end up with more of them. 

The best system I have come across for accounting on these big jobs is an employee time clock.  Each card carries a specific task, and the employee has to “clock-in” each time he works on that task, and “clock out” when he stops. 

You can easily compute your materials costs, keeping track of the labor is a real trial. 

In any case, to paraphrase Kevin Costner:  “If you build it, more of it will come.”

 

[smorgasbord]

You can easily compute your materials costs, keeping track of the labor is a real trial. 

Why not use an app? There are free options like Clockify:https://clockify.me/

That's aimed at lawyers and such, but should work for you. Might as well get something good out of having lawyers.

The problem with doing very difficult jobs very well, is you become a magnet for similar work that others turn down.

That should give you pricing power, though.

I watched a couple of Black Forest Wood Co. videos on YT. They do big epoxy river tables and charge tens of thousands, sometimes into 6 digits. For the size of tables they do they need both big machinery and enough people on staff for lifting, rotating, etc., so that prices out most small to medium shops. That said, I do believe they're making out really well, and boosting profits with YT.

 

[Packard]

You can easily compute your materials costs, keeping track of the labor is a real trial. 

Why not use an app? There are free options like Clockify:https://clockify.me/

That's aimed at lawyers and such, but should work for you. Might as well get something good out of having lawyers.

The problem with doing very difficult jobs very well, is you become a magnet for similar work that others turn down.

That should give you pricing power, though.

I watched a couple of Black Forest Wood Co. videos on YT. They do big epoxy river tables and charge tens of thousands, sometimes into 6 digits. For the size of tables they do they need both big machinery and enough people on staff for lifting, rotating, etc., so that prices out most small to medium shops. That said, I do believe they're making out really well, and boosting profits with YT.

My experience is with tool room workers, not wood workers, so I am making assumptions based on a different pool of workers.  I think my observations would apply.

While I could hand Bob White 5 punch cards that might read:

1. Pressmation—tool base
2. Pressmation—feed
3. Pressmation—motor mount
4. Pressmation—controls mount

And I could instruct Bob to punch-in when he started the listed task and punch our when he stopped.  So Bob might punch-in/out 3 or 4 times a day until each task was completed. 

I would have a fairly high expectation that Bob would cooperate with that. 

But if I instructed him to go to a computer and enter the start and stop times, I feel certain that he (and his co-workers) would forget or skip the process.

With the punch card, the worker punches in and takes the card to the worksite and punches out and then leaves the card at the clock.  The punch card becomes a visible reminder. 

At any rate, I saw it in use at a vendor’s shop and asked if it worked and he said “with a little encouragement, yes.”  (His “encouragement” might resemble that of boot camp trainer.)

We tried it at our shop and retained the process.  Like I said, this is for tool and die workers, and we never tried using an app.  We did have a chart that they were supposed to write in the start/stop times.  But the accuracy of that system was often questioned.

“Hours” get lost in very big jobs.  It is easy to see how long it takes to make 50 each of something, than it is to judge the hours on a project that might take 400 or 800 hours.

 

[smorgasbord]

But if I instructed him to go to a computer and enter the start and stop times, I feel certain that he (and his co-workers) would forget or skip the process.

I admit I haven't looked, but I assumed the UI would not require entering start and stop times, and that there'd be a list of project on which to click when started. I'd also assume that starting one project would automatically stop recording time on the previous project.

 

[Packard]

Bob White comes in at 8:00 a.m. and clocks in on “machine base”.  Coffee break—clocks out 15 minutes, then clocks in again.

Clocks out at lunch, completes the job at 2:00 pm and clocks out for that task. 

In my imagination now, I can see Bob White using a punch card.  I cannot pull up a visualization of him going to a computer, scrolling through options and then clocking out. 

Maybe because all our workers were born in the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s.  With a younger crew that might be different.  (Though articles recently say that Gen Z workers are underperforming compared to previous generations).

 

[smorgasbord]

Just just skimmed these Clockify videos:=wLxIzdgyI0IHZvsn&t=29

Once the projects are created, the user see a list of projects and just clicks a PLAY or START button next to the project he's starting.

There are a bunch of other features, such as modifying the start time if he had started work but forgot to clock it, but those aren't the day to day use, nor how to sum up usage, etc,

I'm not saying this is the app to use. It's just one of the free time tracking apps available. And saves you the time of doing the deltas on all the punch-in and punch-out times, summing them up, manually adding/subtracting mistakes,etc.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Back when I first started, we did use punch cards, but it was only tracking time, with no association to the specific project. We literally wrote that part on a paper form. Then someone had to reconcile all of that, for everyone. As more employees were added, that got overly time consuming. We switched to a computer-based time keeping system pretty quickly. It still required everyone to physically go to one of the two terminals though. The real upgrade was when it gave us the ability to do it with our phones.
Keeping track of time is easy, it's estimating the time required that is the hard part.
Some of them are fairly easy, essentially done by linear footage. Things like this? It just baffles me. I have often discussed this with our top sales guy. He is the one who calculates this kind of thing. I just don't get it though. How can they cost-estimate something that they have no idea how to do (or how it will be done)? Often there is a conversation/consultation between myself and the engineering guys about how thing can/will be done. This is all well after the contract has already been accepted.
The only answer I really get is experience and educated guess.
I've been doing this a long time and wouldn't even hazard a guess. There are so many factors that come into play, including whether I get help, the ability of that help, things that actually work against me, etc.
There is just no way to know....that guess has to be more of a guess than anyone is willing to admit.
We also track materials. The things that are ordered specifically for a job are charged to it immediately, by the person who does the ordering. Anything that would come out of stock, plywood, MDF, in-wall brackets, etc are tracked on a log sheet, clipped to the side of my toolbox The inventory person records that, so it all gets counted.

That last Corian pic is super impressive, not even counting the rush.

Thank you. I saved that until almost the end, just because so much else was going on. My apprentice/trainee do a lot of the Corian work, while I concentrated on the actual construction, laminating, etc. All of that has to be done before the tops can go on. It's nice to know I can just ignore that aspect, knowing it is getting done, in that department.
The stain/finish was done by that department. All I had to do was apply it. Oh, and keep it straight going around a curve. I had some help, this wasn't a solo effort, since the time crunch was on. I even had some office guys helping with the break-down, they even helped clean-up.  [smile]

Installing it is going to be a challenge. There are a few columns and posts to fit around, and the parts are incredibly heavy. I'm sure I'll get pics on this one, everybody is wanting to see it finished.

 

[Packard]

My friend, a tree surgeon, was contracted to clean up a huge lot and also prune the trees.

He told the homeowner that the only way to price the job was by the hours logged.

Surprisingly, the homeowner agreed.  It sounded like a signed blank check to me.

In the end they were both satisfied.  The homeowner got a fair price and my friend made a fair profit.

I don’t think many people will go along with that arrangement.