Las Vegas FOG Tool Training!

[nickao]

I like the idea of connecting two or more CTs together!  With another CT inline, one may be able to better address the DC needs of some of those other tools -- like my lunchbox planner and bandsaw.  Furthermore, if there is an overall increase in volume (and why wouldn't there be?)

Because the hose size is the limiting, determining factor. If it wasn't everyone would use a huge dust collector and pipe their shop with a 2" pipe and be done with it.
A planer and BIG band saw are better off with 400 CFM or more, which means a 4" hose minimum. No matter how many CT's you hook up, the max CFM the 2" hose can move is about 200 CFM.

Nickao

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  I  go away (mostly) for a couple days and when I check in again I find this thread. You lucky _____!  Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do on post reading. 

Seth

 

[danrush]

This is for the guys at the Henderson party:

After this I promise to let it alone.  Did the festool guys explain WHY one would want to hook up multiple CT's ?  Does it help one or more of their (or others) tools work more effectively?  If not , I guess it's ok for the cool factor, but it seems there must be another reason to even bring it up.

A second thought.  If multiple CT's are hooked up in series, how would the paper bags hold up?  Can they take the extra pressure? I've had a bag explosion (or implosion?), but I believe it was operator error. 

Sorry to dwell, as I said before, I'm just trying to get my head around dust collection in general.

Thanks, Dan

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dan,
By chaining the dust extractors, you multiply the suction.  I believe (I could be wrong here) one of the specific applications mentioned by David McGibbon was a vacuum clamp for veneering.

Regarding how well the paper bag would hold up to the increased suction: that's a good question.  Someone with more technical knowledge, and the ability to test out a CT daisy-chain, will have to answer that!

Matthew

 

[Corwin]

Dan,
By chaining the dust extractors, you multiply the suction.  I believe (I could be wrong here) one of the specific applications mentioned by David McGibbon was a vacuum clamp for veneering.

Regarding how well the paper bag would hold up to the increased suction: that's a good question.  Someone with more technical knowledge, and the ability to test out a CT daisy-chain, will have to answer that!

Matthew

I've been thinking of getting another CT and this ability to combine in series just put the decision over the top.  Now, what to get with the CT package?  Too bad it couldn't be that vacuum clamp -- that would be a nice package deal.

I would assume that only the last CT in a series would actually have the bag installed to achieve the increased suction -- but, I know how some assumptions go...  Since Festool showed you this feature, how about an answer from them as to the 'how' and 'how long' in regards to the bags.

 

[Eli]

Fantastic! Congratulations Guys!
I've been working and just caught up with the backstory. Couldn't have happened to a nicer buncha.  ;D ;D ;D

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
I should emphasize that this idea of chaining dust extractors was described during the training, but we did not actually see it done.  Any answers about what actually happens when you connect two or more dust extractors must come from Festool, or from a brave FOG member who wants to actually do it!
Matthew

 

[greg mann]

I would assume that only the last CT in a series would actually have the bag installed to achieve the increased suction -- but, I know how some assumptions go...  Since Festool showed you this feature, how about an answer from them as to the 'how' and 'how long' in regards to the bags.

Not sure what you mean by 'last' in this context but I would expect the bag to be in the first CT to see the dust (which could be your perception of last), since every vacuum sucks downstream of the bag, thereby pulling debri into the bag. I would think you would want all the vacuums pulling air through the bag. In theory, at least, you could pull the bag and hepa filters out of the second machine because it would only be sucking clean air. Having said all this, I think using two vacuums not in series makes more sense. For example, I have 2 ports on my router table, one exiting a shroud around the motor and one on the fence. If I use a y-fitting with two hoses and one vacuum I get 50% pull from each port (assuming equal resistance). If I use two CTs, one on each port, it has to be create more overall volume from the table because I have doubled hose volume (like Nickao has pointed out). Guess I'll need to try this.

 

[nickao]

I still have the two virgin CT 33 . I will hook them together tonight and report back. Any comments or suggestions let me know and I will try them all out, like a filter in both or one unit, bag placement, etc.

 

[Ned]

I would assume that only the last CT in a series would actually have the bag installed to achieve the increased suction -- but, I know how some assumptions go...  Since Festool showed you this feature, how about an answer from them as to the 'how' and 'how long' in regards to the bags.

I was in Henderson, but on this Corwin I know very little more than you do now about it.

My assumption is just the opposite--that the CT nearest the tool would be the only one that needed a bag.  In fact I think it could be the only one with the filters installed. 

The CT nearest the tool would not be exhausting into room air pressure, but instead into the vacuum created by the next CT.  That next CT would simply be a fan moving clean air.

The possiblity of daisychaining CTs together was only mentioned in passing, not discussed in detail.  As others have pointed out, there are limits to how much suction can be created and the volume of air that can be moved by this combination.  I don't think any configuration of CTs would provide the characteristics of say, a stationary dust collection system.  Get another CT if you want Corwin, but at this point you'll be experimenting and telling us what works and how well.

If you do this experiment, a short length of 50mm hose is essential.  Question:  Since all CTs are individually grounded, would that hose have to be Anti-Static?

If Dr. Festool had really wanted us to gang CTs together, he would have made them stackable. 

Ned

 

[PeterK]

I go along with Greg's thinking. So far, I just don't see the value of running the vacs in series. Sure is a neat - cool idea but just don't understand what it is for. Now, running them in parallel, that is the way to go!
Pete

 

[ken257]

If the use stated in a previous post was to use 2 CT's in series for a vacume clamp, that would make perfect sence. This setup would increase the suction and the result would be a greater clamping force. However if you want to use 2 CT's to collect chips from say a lunchbox planner you would be much better off hooking them up in parallel. Each CT with a 50mm hose, Y them together into a 4 inch hose and hook that to the tool. This will give you the maximum air flow, much better then an in series hoookup.

 

[ken257]

I go along with Greg's thinking. So far, I just don't see the value of running the vacs in series. Sure is a neat - cool idea but just don't understand what it is for. Now, running them in parallel, that is the way to go!
Pete

We were thinking the same thing at the same time, Parallel CT's!

 

[nickao]

Wouldn't parallel in this case just be  using two CT next to each other, for example both sucking down a board. I will see if two separated units to hold a board as well or better or worse, than the " in series" method.

The only application of using two together to me, is to use them as a vacuum clamp.

Nickao

 

[monte]

pard me for breaking in here, but I seem to recall that the Festool Vac System comes with its own venturi type compressor.

........so I wouldn't think that you'd be using it for the vac hold, in any event if you did use the ct 22's or 33's in an either daisy or parallel fashion for a vac hold.......
assuming that your vac holding it, let's say on an mft in order to use your domino or router ........what would you then use to suck up the offerings from your domino or router?? ;D ;D ;D
......a third CT/22?

......just a sidebar thought.

Monte

 

[semenza]

Hi,

        For those that were present when the series CT hook up was described by Festool employees. What did they say the intended use was?

Seth

 

[Brice Burrell]

Hi,

         For those that were present when the series CT hook up was described by Festool employees. What did they say the intended use was?

Seth

  Seth and everyone else, the Festool staff only brought the idea up, we didn't discuss it in length. The only use we talked about was has if one needed an increase in suction, that's all. At this point you guys know as much as we do. Sorry we don't have more info.

 

 

[Corwin]

Sorry I led us down this path...  I probably will get another CT if only to keep upstairs -- I used to transport the CT w/Boom, but cannot do those things anymore without paying dearly. 

If I do get another CT, one thing I will attempt is to connect the two in series to take advantage of any increased suction to improve on my lunchbox.  Yes, I do understand the limitation on the D50 hose and will attempt to get the most from it -- my single CT doesn't max out the D50's capacity, and as I understand, an in-line separator and/or cyclone will further impact the flow.  So, I'll see if any additional suction will improve that area -- just thought a separator by the lunchbox, then off to the cyclone and through the two CTs.  Doubt it works any worse, and I only need a little more performance anyway.

For the router table, I would also gain using the two CTs in parallel as mentioned -- that was another 'justification' I was going with...  but, my back/neck issue is reason enough for me.  So, it is just a matter of when I get around to ordering another.

Thanks for all your input!
Corwin

 

[bnolan2]

WOW!!  Did you see that CPOFestool.com is giving away a trip to Vegas for the Festool training!!?!  Check it out: http://www.cpofestool.com/policy/cpo_las_vegas_sweepstakes_2008.html

 

[Michael Kellough]

If you do this experiment, a short length of 50mm hose is essential. 

Question:  Since all CTs are individually grounded, would that hose have to be Anti-Static?

Ned

I seem to recall reading that the AS hoses slightly conductive so any static leaks to the vac rather than building up. I also seem to recall reading that the friction of the debris on the walls of the hose builds up static at a much higher rate than clean air.

If the above is true, a non AS hose would work fine since the debris is captured by the upstream bag.